‘Lord of the Rings’ Amazon Series Sets Premiere Date
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But they're not allowed to use the Silmarillion? 
So ... does that mean no Morgoth/Melkor, no Beren, no Lúthien, and so on?
What about Treebeard? In LOTR, he sings about the Willow-meads of Tasarinan, and mentions various other very old forests. If he knows them, then he will have been there!
(Speaking of which -- the legendary Sir Christopher Lee recorded that song with The Tolkien Ensemble, a Danish group that dedicated itself to collecting Tolkien's songs and setting them to music. A few years ago, they succeeded! Here, listen to Christopher Lee become Treebeard ...
Sorry, I'm a huuuuuuuuuuge Tolkien fan. So, naturally, this news is ... slightly concerning. =P I hope they get things "right" - or, at least, interesting)
So ... does that mean no Morgoth/Melkor, no Beren, no Lúthien, and so on?What about Treebeard? In LOTR, he sings about the Willow-meads of Tasarinan, and mentions various other very old forests. If he knows them, then he will have been there!
(Speaking of which -- the legendary Sir Christopher Lee recorded that song with The Tolkien Ensemble, a Danish group that dedicated itself to collecting Tolkien's songs and setting them to music. A few years ago, they succeeded!
Here, listen to Christopher Lee become Treebeard ...Sorry, I'm a huuuuuuuuuuge Tolkien fan.
So, naturally, this news is ... slightly concerning. =P I hope they get things "right" - or, at least, interesting) 
Was the Fall of Numenor during the Second Age? Because it'd be interesting to see that played out in a Game of Thrones manner. And didn't the Second Age end when Sauron got defeated by Isildur? My knowledge of Middle Earth history, or at least what's set during what Age, is a little shaky. It's been so long since I've read The Silmarillion, or even the other main books...
The Fall of Númenor. Google-fu wins again!
Yes, the Second Age ended when Isildur cut the One Ring from the Hand of Sauron. (Sauron was not defeated until the One Ring was finally cast into the lava, as the LOTR film shows).
Yes, the Second Age ended when Isildur cut the One Ring from the Hand of Sauron. (Sauron was not defeated until the One Ring was finally cast into the lava, as the LOTR film shows).
It counts as a defeat. Sauron was rendered impotent (as the actress said to the archbishop) when Isildur cut off the ring. A defeat is not necessarily a final one. *sigh*
Also, I went back and looked at Wikipedia. Considering that it's stated that John Howe and other artists worked on stuff based on Tolkien's maps of Numenor, I think it's a pretty safe bet that it'll be based around Numenor and its downfall.
Hmm...I know this is sort-of off-topic, but I wonder if they'll be taking any cues from the recent Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War games? The reason why I say that is that one of the things from the latter game that oddly appealed to me was Shelob as a morally ambiguous shapeshifter, and while they are set during the Third Age, I think there are flashbacks to the Second Age and Shelob's past...
Also, I went back and looked at Wikipedia. Considering that it's stated that John Howe and other artists worked on stuff based on Tolkien's maps of Numenor, I think it's a pretty safe bet that it'll be based around Numenor and its downfall.
Hmm...I know this is sort-of off-topic, but I wonder if they'll be taking any cues from the recent Shadow of Mordor and Shadow of War games? The reason why I say that is that one of the things from the latter game that oddly appealed to me was Shelob as a morally ambiguous shapeshifter, and while they are set during the Third Age, I think there are flashbacks to the Second Age and Shelob's past...
Er, considering that Sauron was still able to do many things even while rendered "impotent" -- e.g. materialise in Mirkwood to take Thráin II (father of Thorin) prisoner, overwhelm Saruman by sheer force of personality, etc. etc. -- I'd say Sauron still had plenty of power.
Sauron was not defeated in the War of the Last Alliance, merely driven back. But if the Men and Elves (led by Elendil/Isildur and Gil-Galad/Elrond) did not win at the Battle of Dagorlad, then all of Middle-Earth would've been Sauron's. I don't think there's any argument about that!
Sauron was not defeated in the War of the Last Alliance, merely driven back. But if the Men and Elves (led by Elendil/Isildur and Gil-Galad/Elrond) did not win at the Battle of Dagorlad, then all of Middle-Earth would've been Sauron's. I don't think there's any argument about that!
Relatively impotent. Don't nitpick, being pedantic is MY job. And that was centuries later. In other words, it took him time to regain his power, thank you very muchly. I mean, when the 'Necromancer' appeared, it was millennia after Sauron got the worst manicure ever if I recall correctly, so that suggests that he needed that long to recover and plot his comeback. And if Isildur hadn't decided the One Ring was 'weregild' for his father's death and just dropped it into Mount Doom like a good little boy, Sauron wouldn't have come back, period. Instead, he got curbstomped by the orcs after the Ring left him, and centuries later, we have Smeagol, aka one half of Tolkien's ripoff of Fafnir from the Volsung Saga or the Nibelungenlied, whatever's your poison.
And while we're on the subject of Isildur and the Volsung Saga, you know how his sword Narsil is reforged? Who's to say that isn't based on Sigurd's sword, Gram, which was also reforged after being broken? Tolkien was such a fanboy of Germanic and Norse myth, after all...
Also, surprised you didn't comment on the Shelob thing.
And that was centuries later. In other words, it took him time to regain his power, thank you very muchly. I mean, when the 'Necromancer' appeared, it was millennia after Sauron got the worst manicure ever if I recall correctly, so that suggests that he needed that long to recover and plot his comeback. And if Isildur hadn't decided the One Ring was 'weregild' for his father's death and just dropped it into Mount Doom like a good little boy, Sauron wouldn't have come back, period. Instead, he got curbstomped by the orcs after the Ring left him, and centuries later, we have Smeagol, aka one half of Tolkien's ripoff of Fafnir from the Volsung Saga or the Nibelungenlied, whatever's your poison.And while we're on the subject of Isildur and the Volsung Saga, you know how his sword Narsil is reforged? Who's to say that isn't based on Sigurd's sword, Gram, which was also reforged after being broken? Tolkien was such a fanboy of Germanic and Norse myth, after all...
Also, surprised you didn't comment on the Shelob thing.
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Yes, I'm aware of the volsungsaga and Fafnir's involvement in it. I'm also aware of Gram being reforged after being broken. You could say that some of LOTR was Norse myth fan-fiction.
I haven't commented on the Shelob thing because it was confusing. I haven't played Shadow of War, so I don't know anything about it or what that video is about. =\ All it did was flash images on the screen and give me a headache.
And I spent four hours in hospital yesterday getting blood-tested and CT-scanned and cannulated, so I'll nitpick LOTR to pieces if I want to. =P
I haven't commented on the Shelob thing because it was confusing. I haven't played Shadow of War, so I don't know anything about it or what that video is about. =\ All it did was flash images on the screen and give me a headache.
And I spent four hours in hospital yesterday getting blood-tested and CT-scanned and cannulated, so I'll nitpick LOTR to pieces if I want to. =P
That it was. And really, it's nothing new. What is the Divine Comedy than Dante Aligheri's self-insert fanfic into Biblical stuff? Hell, one of my favourite science fiction novel series, the Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold, basically started off as Star Trek fanfic pairing a Federation officer with a Klingon.
Okay, so, long story short, those games are about a Ranger of Gondor called Talion who basically gets killed, and brought back to life by the shade of Celebrimbor. That's the guy who forged some of the Rings of Power thanks to Sauron's trickery. In the games...Celebrimbor turns out to be a bit of a nasty piece of work. I don't know enough about the story to know whether that is due to the Rings and/or Sauron, or whether he was a not-so-nice person already, and what happened merely amplified what was already there.
Here's Shelob's introduction, rather than a trailer.
Thank you for that mental image, not, but trust me, I can easily make a claim to be more pedantic than you on many a topic. Possibly not Tolkien, but that won't stop me from trying.
Okay, so, long story short, those games are about a Ranger of Gondor called Talion who basically gets killed, and brought back to life by the shade of Celebrimbor. That's the guy who forged some of the Rings of Power thanks to Sauron's trickery. In the games...Celebrimbor turns out to be a bit of a nasty piece of work. I don't know enough about the story to know whether that is due to the Rings and/or Sauron, or whether he was a not-so-nice person already, and what happened merely amplified what was already there.
Here's Shelob's introduction, rather than a trailer.
Thank you for that mental image, not, but trust me, I can easily make a claim to be more pedantic than you on many a topic. Possibly not Tolkien, but that won't stop me from trying.
Does it matter that LOTR is a volsungsaga fan-fiction? It's a well-written story, engaging, with a highly creative world, well-defined characters, and even its own songs. As you said, just about every story has been re-written to death.
Oh, dear ... Minas Ithil, the Tower of the Moon - now known as Minas Morgul, where the Seven Nazgûl, (or Ringwraiths) dwell. Congrats, Talion - you just picked a fight you can't win.
As for the mental image - you're welcome. =P I've been working in healthcare for 15 years, and trust me, being cannulated (though quite unpleasant) is far from the worst thing that can happen to the human body, even under medical supervision. =P
Oh, dear ... Minas Ithil, the Tower of the Moon - now known as Minas Morgul, where the Seven Nazgûl, (or Ringwraiths) dwell. Congrats, Talion - you just picked a fight you can't win.
As for the mental image - you're welcome. =P I've been working in healthcare for 15 years, and trust me, being cannulated (though quite unpleasant) is far from the worst thing that can happen to the human body, even under medical supervision. =P
Hey, I like stuff from the Nasuverse, which is bonkers Japanese fanfic of history and myth that nonetheless manages to be an excellent dark fantasy franchise outside of all that bonkers stuff, so I'm not actually complaining mind. I'm just pointing it out.
Hmm, should I spoil what happens to Talion?
I have two health degrees, I am widely read in fiction that occasionally veers on fact, and I've heard more than a few anecdotes. Believe me, I'm more than well aware. For example, Phineas Gage. 'Nuff said. Or maybe I should relate the supposed origin of the Rod of Asclepius where it relates to treating infestation by the guinea worm?
So, back on track...isn't Numenor meant to be, in part, Tolkien's take on the myths about Atlantis, amongst other sources? Now, from what little I know of the background, the Numenoreans managed to defeat and capture Sauron, but he basically turned the tables, poisoning their minds against the deities of Middle Earth, and basically making them launch an assault on them? Which didn't end well...
Hmm, should I spoil what happens to Talion?
It's funny you should mention that about the Nazgul. He actually becomes one. He's one of the Nazgul in The Lord of the Rings.
I have two health degrees, I am widely read in fiction that occasionally veers on fact, and I've heard more than a few anecdotes. Believe me, I'm more than well aware. For example, Phineas Gage. 'Nuff said. Or maybe I should relate the supposed origin of the Rod of Asclepius where it relates to treating infestation by the guinea worm?
So, back on track...isn't Numenor meant to be, in part, Tolkien's take on the myths about Atlantis, amongst other sources? Now, from what little I know of the background, the Numenoreans managed to defeat and capture Sauron, but he basically turned the tables, poisoning their minds against the deities of Middle Earth, and basically making them launch an assault on them? Which didn't end well...
I don't mind being spoiled, since I won't play the Talion games. This LOTR game is more than enough for me, thanks - although I prefer the Battle for Middle-earth games (especially the second).
Coming back to the topic -- Numenor could be based on Atlantis, but the basic idea of a land under the sea is very, very old. (The idea of a civilisation being punished for a "sin" or misdeed by being drowned is even older, almost as old as the Sumerians. There are other echoes of this in the story of Noah and the flood, the story of Pharaoh and his warriors drowned in the Red Sea, etc.)
This is also interesting. (And the comments section is hilarious, but NSFW. 'Cos swear-words are naughty, you know).
Coming back to the topic -- Numenor could be based on Atlantis, but the basic idea of a land under the sea is very, very old. (The idea of a civilisation being punished for a "sin" or misdeed by being drowned is even older, almost as old as the Sumerians. There are other echoes of this in the story of Noah and the flood, the story of Pharaoh and his warriors drowned in the Red Sea, etc.)
This is also interesting. (And the comments section is hilarious, but NSFW. 'Cos swear-words are naughty, you know).
Meh. I'd say your loss, but the Shadow of Mordor game was somewhat stealth-based, and any stealth game that isn't called Metal Gear Solid, I tend to dislike.
I'm well aware of that trope, of civilisations being punished by flood. Isn't the Sumerian equivalent of Noah called Ziusudra? I know that purely because of the Nasuverse. And if I recall, it comes from a time when the Black Sea was flooded, or at least that's one theory. Of course, islands rising and sinking can cause trouble, as Ferdinandea showed, and Terry Pratchett gleefully used as the basis of Jingo.
QI proved that those who swore more were actually intelligent. Science fact. **** YEAH!
I'm well aware of that trope, of civilisations being punished by flood. Isn't the Sumerian equivalent of Noah called Ziusudra? I know that purely because of the Nasuverse. And if I recall, it comes from a time when the Black Sea was flooded, or at least that's one theory. Of course, islands rising and sinking can cause trouble, as Ferdinandea showed, and Terry Pratchett gleefully used as the basis of Jingo.
QI proved that those who swore more were actually intelligent. Science fact. **** YEAH!