SPOILERS Eric Discussion **Spoilers**

Welcome to the Sir Terry Pratchett Forums
Register here for the Sir Terry Pratchett forum and message boards.
Sign up

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
30,854
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
#1
**Warning**

This thread is for discussing Eric in some depth. If you haven’t read the book then read on at your own risk – or, better still, go and read the book and join in the fun.

For those of us that are going to join in the discussion, here are a few guidelines:

Please feel free to make comparisons to other Discworld books, making sure you identify the book and the passage you are referring to. Others may not be as familiar with the book you are referencing, so think before you post.

Sometimes we’ll need to agree to disagree – only Terry knows for sure what he was thinking when he wrote the books and individuals members may have widely different interpretations – so try to keep the discussion friendly.

We may be discussing a book that you don’t much care for – don’t be put off joining in the discussion. If you didn’t care for the book, then that in itself is a good topic for discussion.

Please note: there is no time limit to this discussion. Please feel free to add to it at any time - especially if you've just read the book.

And finally:

Please endeavour to keep the discussion on topic. If necessary I will step in and steer it back to the original topic – so no digressions please!

*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*


Eric by Terry Pratchett
Originally published 1990





Whatever happened to Rincewind?

The last time we saw him he was in Sourcery where he was, apparently, trapped in the Dungeon Dimension. Well, with the help of amateur demonologist, Eric Thursley (or so it would seem) he’s back and ready to grant Eric three wishes. The trouble with wishing for things is that sometimes you get exactly what you thought you wanted.
------------------------------------
I’ll admit that I wasn’t looking forward to this one. It’s what I’d describe as Pratchett Lite and seems to have been written mainly as a vehicle for Josh Kirby’s illustrations. I have to say though, that I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed reading it this time. I think that was partly down to the fact that I wasn’t expecting too much from it.

This was a busy year (1990) for Terry as far as publishing went. Not only Eric, but also Diggers, Moving Pictures and Good Omens. I’m not a fan of Kirby’s covers or illustrations and I really don’t think they add a lot to this book. But the story itself is amusing and even downright funny at times.

But what did you think?
----------------------------------

Want to write the introduction for the next discussion (Interesting Times)? PM me and let me know if you’d like to – first come first served. ;)
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,760
2,950
#2
I thought it was the worst Discworld book that I had ever read. Insubstantial, with not enough funny jokes (I'll admit that there were some) and frankly boring, even though it was short.
 
Apr 26, 2011
4,005
2,600
42
Bingen
www.flickr.com
#3
I like this book very much. It may not be as deep as some of Terry's later work, but it is one of the funniest in my opinion.
I especially like the episode about the Tsortean War.It plays with themes from the Iliad, Odyssee and Aeneid and offers a different perspective to the heroic epics - or heroism in general.
Lavaelus is not a great general who sends his troops in masses against a near impenetrable fortress, but tries to think how all this could be done more elegantly and with less bloodshed.
Also, he casts some doubt on the whole affair of waging a war to get back a woman, which by the time the war is over (the capturing of Troy took 10 years according to Homer (not Simpson)) will be 10 years older and prbably will have settled in nicely.

I'll write more in my lunchbreak... gotta pretend to work now.
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
30,854
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
#4
The twists to the wishes is quite well done, I thought. The idea of wanting to live forever and that being translated to being taken to the beginning of time is a very funny idea.

The Helen or Troy bit is also very good and I like the way Terry asks - what makes a good general? Is it someone who keeps his men alive or someone who sacrifices them for glory? This is a theme he looks at again in Jingo.
 
Apr 26, 2011
4,005
2,600
42
Bingen
www.flickr.com
#5
The Eleonor of Tsort part is also very good. Although, I think, I doesn't raise the question what a beautiful woman is. If you look at paintings from different epochs, you'll realize that the sense of "beauty" has changed as much as everything else. For example, in Barock pictures there're mall these rather heavy set women which somewhat conflict with, I dare say, most of today's people's ideas. So, how is the most beautiful woman of all times supposed to look like? Perhaps like Sacharissa Cripslock, who is beautiful viewed over several centuries?
Terry also plays with a typical stylistic feat of the epics, the "epitheta ornantia" or decorating byname, like with the topless towers. When reading for example the Aeneid, you'll often find that Aeneas has the adjective pius (=pious; loyal), even if it is absolutely unnecessary to describe Aeneas as pius in the given context (let alone give him that attribute probably several hundreds of times in the whole work). But it's just a thing you do in the epics (sometimes it is useful to make a hexametric verse to have the epitheton, of course). Therefore, the topless towers of Tsort (there's a nice alliteration there as well) would have been mentioned in the Disc's epics so often that you would automatically append the word topless when you think of the towers of Tsort. The, of course, the towers probably were quite high and epic language threw in a nice hyperbole and made them so high you can't see the tops.

I also like the way Terry played with the wooden horse in Eric. One thing that is hilarious of course is that the latch is in the rear. There's also a nice picture:

The idea of the Trojan Horse is, when you look at it, quite daft in the first place. 10 years of siege, and all of a sudden the Greeks disappear and all they leave behind is a bloody big horse, that is so big the Trojans would have to demolish parts of their city walls to get it into their city. Of course the Trojans ain't THAT stupid and at first don't want to get the horse into their city, but Sinon (allegedly a defected Greek) told them a lie about it (it was a gift to the gods so they would ensure the Greeks a safe travel home, it was so big in order to prevent the Trojans from getting it into their city etc.). But still the plan could have gone terribly wrong (Laokoon warned: "I fear the Greeks even when they bring presents.") hadn't it been for some last minute Deus ex Machina trick by Homer* (Poseidon sent a sea snake that devoured Laokoon and his sons).
The way Terry does it is much more elegant; using the quite obvious Horse trick to distract the military while looking for another way in.
Um... my lunchbreak is over now.

*greatly simplified
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,760
2,950
#7
Tonyblack said:
I must admit that the story of the Trojan Horse never made a lot of sense to me either. Terry's version works much better. :laugh:
There is a certain amount of what is called Fridge Logic to it.
 

poohcarrot

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 13, 2009
8,317
2,300
NOT The land of the risen Son!!
#8
The...wossisname... parrot annoys me. :twisted:

As far as I can see, this book is purely a device for getting Rincewind out of the Dungeon Dimensions so he can have further adventures, to act as a vehicle for Josh Kirby's artwork (as Tony has already stated), and to copy the idea of one of TP's first published short stories - The Hades Business.

The best way I can describe it, is as a "harmless toilet book" similar to The Unadulterated Cat.

Without the pictures, it loses a lot. :laugh:

ChrisB said:
It may not be as deep as some of Terry's later work, but it is one of the funniest in my opinion.
It is also not as deep as some of Terry's earlier work. :p
In fact in terms of depth, I am hard pushed to think of a more shallow book. o_O
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,760
2,950
#9
poohcarrot said:
As far as I can see, this book is purely a device for getting Rincewind out of the Dungeon Dimensions so he can have further adventures...

ChrisB said:
It may not be as deep as some of Terry's later work, but it is one of the funniest in my opinion.
It is also not as deep as some of Terry's earlier work. :p
In fact in terms of depth, I am hard pushed to think of a more shallow book. o_O
You know, Poohcarrot, there are times when you just shock me! :eek:






Because we are in complete and utter accord on these points!

As I believe that they say on the rest of the internets, OMGWTFBBQ!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
#10
Quatermass said:
poohcarrot said:
As far as I can see, this book is purely a device for getting Rincewind out of the Dungeon Dimensions so he can have further adventures...

ChrisB said:
It may not be as deep as some of Terry's later work, but it is one of the funniest in my opinion.
It is also not as deep as some of Terry's earlier work. :p
In fact in terms of depth, I am hard pushed to think of a more shallow book. o_O
You know, Poohcarrot, there are times when you just shock me! :eek:


Because we are in complete and utter accord on these points!

As I believe that they say on the rest of the internets, OMGWTFBBQ!

Oh tshhh! Do you want the universe to hear you?! You know what'll happen if it catches up on you!
 

Quatermass

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 7, 2010
7,760
2,950
#11
LilMaibe said:
Quatermass said:
poohcarrot said:
As far as I can see, this book is purely a device for getting Rincewind out of the Dungeon Dimensions so he can have further adventures...

ChrisB said:
It may not be as deep as some of Terry's later work, but it is one of the funniest in my opinion.
It is also not as deep as some of Terry's earlier work. :p
In fact in terms of depth, I am hard pushed to think of a more shallow book. o_O
You know, Poohcarrot, there are times when you just shock me! :eek:


Because we are in complete and utter accord on these points!

As I believe that they say on the rest of the internets, OMGWTFBBQ!

Oh tshhh! Do you want the universe to hear you?! You know what'll happen if it catches up on you!
Sorry, what? o_O
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
30,854
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
#13
ChristianBecker said:
Is there really no love for Eric amongst you? I think it is a great parody of many themes.
I don't dislike it, I just don't think there's a lot of depth to it.

In some ways it's like The Last Hero - a book written as a vehicle for artwork, a way of digging out some old characters and moving them along and to exercise some jokes and references.

Pooh mentioned The Hades Business, which I haven't read, but have a rough idea what it's about, but I think there are some ideas in Eric that are also used in Good Omens. The idea that humans are far better at torturing themselves than demons are.

I love some of the tortures in the underworld. The idea of having to read through all the health and safety books before you can even begin to push the rock up the hill is genius! :laugh:
 

Dotsie

Sergeant-at-Arms
Jul 28, 2008
9,069
2,850
#14
I enjoyed it for what it was, Pratchett Lite as Tony called it. It's got some great one-liners, but I'm probably not going to go away and think about it. Not his worst book by far.

I could really have done without the parrot though - not funny at all, and actually pretty annoying.
 
#17
Thought as much.



I liked the book and read it without illustrations, although I flicked though the illustrated version in WHSmiths when re-released a few months ago.

I didn't find it particularly memorable apart from the fact that it just seems in my head to just be made of three long scenes. o_O

If it were a longer book I think it would've been better to get to know Eric a bit more before adventurering, go around his town etc...
 

Jan Van Quirm

Sergeant-at-Arms
Nov 7, 2008
8,524
2,800
Dunheved, Kernow
www.janhawke.me.uk
#18
I think in a way Eric is another 'transitional' book like Mort and Wyrd Sisters and Guards Guards where Terry's looking around him and experimenting with different elements.

With Eric and it's position in the roll-call of Discworld novels it's tempting to compare it with Reaperman in some respects, as this is where we definitively wave bye-bye to the Dungeon Dimensions which had reached it's sell-by-date in parody in Moving Pictures I think (having been explored more or less to its 'proper' unique depths in Equal Rites) in the same way that we say farewell to the Trymons and Galder Weatherwax types of wizard and Ridcully and the Bursar breezed in?

Also I think Eric has a fair bit in common with the first part of CoM in terms of being an extended short story and in that comparison we also see Terry's progress as a writer in that the jokes and send-ups work a lot better this time. I never really got into graphic novels having a good enough imagination not to need the visuals and enough drawing talent myself not to admire the Marvel comic connotations (I don't need my fantasy to have superhero parameters thanks ;) ) and I think this is another landmark in moving away from baseline paperbacks and into more hard-core literary realms for Terry.

Certainly the Josh Kirby sumptuous, if not-so-generous-as-you'd-thought-they-were-going-to-be illustrations are just that and not storyboarding dressed up as 'edgy street' cult and in fact, in the following novels Josh's artwork does begin to 'calm' a little and lose some of the wildness that die-hard Kirby fans still miss in Kidby's art (although his portraiture is brilliant his landscapes and action scenes lack Josh's 'zing') and which in its way summed up the early Discworld's feral magic and zest. having said that I read the non-illustrated paperback edition first and felt perfectly happy with just the cover pic to go with. I think Eric is like everyone's saying, not the best of, but kind of an 'easy chair' Terry book where he's cracked his style and is moving away from older takes and ideas and looking to move into the exciting new territory of his 'classic' era with grumpy witches showing the wizards a thing or two about style and of course the Watch getting better and better with every outing leaving no place for wizards with assassin tendencies and the Dungeon Dimensions completely outmoded and outclassed, hardly ever to be mentioned again :p
 

User Menu

Newsletter