SPOILERS Sargent Fred Colon Character Discussion

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Tonyblack

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City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
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#1
This week I thought we'd discuss Fred Colon. Initially I thought we might discuss Fred and Nobby Nobbs in one thread, but then I decided that we could probably do both as separate discussions. So if you are talking about Nobby in this thread, try to do it in respect of Nobby's impression of Fred.

So what do you think of Fred and, for example, his almost casual racism?

Apologies if I make any spelling mistakes - the arthritis in my fingers is particularly painful today.
 

raisindot

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#2
Based on the books, it always seemed that Pterry had a like/hate relationship with ol' Fred. Colon is a parody of the stereotyped veteran old school city cop: Lazy, corrupt, racist, cowardly reactionary yet still valuable because they can provide a clear sense of what's going on the streets and every once in a while they stumble onto something that helps solve a crime.

Unlike almost all of the other core Watch characters, Colon barely changes at all over the series, and really remains little more than a figure for Pterry to vent some of his broadest and crudest jokes upon.

Vetinari's ""order" to him during the juggling scene of Jingo pretty much describes him: (Note: I don't have the book in front of me, so this is at best a memory): "Sergeant, our very survival depends on you being a stupid, oafish idiot." As Colon proves, no acting is required.
 
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RathDarkblade

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#3
No spelling mistakes, Tony. And I hope your arthritis settles down soon.

Raisindot is right in listing Colon's qualities (lazy, corrupt etc.). To those I think we can add that Colon is "set in his ways", perhaps - i.e. he's so used to doing everything in a certain way that when a new situation presents itself, he finds it hard to come up with valuable innovations. Hence the disaster in "The Fifth Elephant".

Raisin, it's possible that you may have made a mistake there? :) You probably meant to write that Colon doesn't change at all over the series. You're absolutely right there: the only time I remember Colon changing is when the goblins keep him underground for a while. (I can't remember when that happens, though. Was it in "Snuff")?

As for the quote, I think Vetinari tells him that their survival depends on him acting like a clumsy fool. (Or something like that - I don't have the book in front of me either). But yes, Colon's reply is that he's not very good at acting. Vetinari is relieved to hear it. :)
 

Tonyblack

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#4
Oddly enough, the Colon we see in Night Watch - the proto-Colon, seems to be a considerably better copper, once he has a decent leader. Maybe the drunkard Vimes is partly responsible for Fred's laziness.
 

RathDarkblade

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#5
Hmm ... yes, I agree that the NW Colon has more initiative (e.g. when Vimes is incapacitated, Colon takes charge and gets the men to push the barricades forward). Unfortunately, he is still too stupid to consider the consequences of his actions (Are we gonna get in trouble over this one, sarge? Sorry, sarge) and racist ("Can't have trolls on the Watch. Too fick to take orders").

He does get a moment of glory, though, when he helps Vimes to disable Big Mary. That is awesome.

Colon has a trained street ear and can pick up rumors with amazing speed, and has many years of experience on the mean streets of A-M. He's also very loyal to Vimes. However, he's a fat old fool, not very brave and definitely unsuitable to be captain.

On the other hand, he can get along with almost everyone. He also has a tendency to make tea for people in bad situations (Nobby after he's promoted to be an earl in FOC, or an overworked Vimes in G!G! and NW).

Although he has occasional racist moments, he expresses them generally (trolls etc.) rather than specifically (e.g. Coalface). He just regurgitates the prejudices of the man in the street, probably because he is the man in the street. That's one reason Vimes keeps him around. :)

He's not especially clever, and usually something of a know-it-all who knows nothing, but he's the only officer other than Vimes (and Nobby on a good day) who can glance into a street/alley and see all he needs to. He can usually read Vimes very well, and there's a part of him - under the fat, stupid coward - that's actually very smart. If there wasn't, he wouldn't survive working the mean streets of Ankh-Morpork. :)

There's one last thing to say about Fred Colon: as old, fat, stupid, cowardly etc. as he may be, he's nowhere near as bad as Sergeant Knock. Knock is like Fred Colon, but without any of Fred's redeeming qualities. And as for Captain Quirke ... shudder ... he's even worse than Knock!

Anyway, sorry to ramble on for so long. I'll give someone else a go. :)
 
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Tonyblack

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#7
Whereas, Nobby does change. I love the way he sets up Fred with questions that highlight Fred's ignorance and bigotry. There's some hope for Fred in Snuff, but we never see him again as far as I remember. There's an old episode (I think) of the Twilight Zone, where a racist wakes up to find he has turned into a Black man. And he gets to experience bigotry from the other side. This is a bit like what happens to Fred in Snuff.
 

raisindot

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#8
Actually, Colon and Nobby have a cameo or two in Raising Steam, where their main job is to serve as jailkeepers for the captured train terrorists. In keeping in character, they completely avoid the fighting but later make up their usual lies about their battling prowess.
 
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RathDarkblade

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#9
Whereas, Nobby does change. I love the way he sets up Fred with questions that highlight Fred's ignorance and bigotry. There's some hope for Fred in Snuff, but we never see him again as far as I remember. There's an old episode (I think) of the Twilight Zone, where a racist wakes up to find he has turned into a Black man. And he gets to experience bigotry from the other side. This is a bit like what happens to Fred in Snuff.
Actually, I think we first see this bit - i.e. Nobby's "innocent" questions that demolish Fred's "street bigotry" - back in "Jingo", when Fred and Nobby discuss the "Klatchian's Head" pub. :) I think that episode of "The Twilight Zone" - i.e. a bigot who experiences bigotry from the other side - happens to Colon in "Jingo", too! :)

First, he talks about "the stupid Klatchians" who are too lazy to do a day's job of work, etc. (which Nobby demolishes with: you mean like Mister Goriff? Only he works all day and all night to provide for his family). *LOL* Then Colon talks about how the Klatchians only discover things that begin with "al", like al-gebra and al-cohol ... and the number zero. Nobby's reactions are priceless. :)

Not long after, of course, Colon and Nobby visit Klatch ... and toward the end of the book, we find out how much Colon's perceptions have changed. When he and Nobby visit "The Klatchian's Head" again, Colon says that their beer is basically piss. ;) So ... say what you like about Colon, at least he's capable of learning from his experiences and changing his mind.

IIRC, Colon and Nobby have a similar experience in "Thud!", after they visit the art gallery. Colon says that art is just artsy-fartsy blokes painting young ladies in the nudd; Nobby corrects him; and it's hilarious. :)

Actually, Colon and Nobby have a cameo or two in Raising Steam, where their main job is to serve as jailkeepers for the captured train terrorists. In keeping in character, they completely avoid the fighting but later make up their usual lies about their battling prowess.
I just had a thought about Colon's and Nobby's cowardice, because they didn't actually start out as cowards. In G!G!, Colon is even brave enough to try and emulate Bard the Bowman, even faced with a raging dragon. That's very brave. :) As for Nobby ... well, consider how big he is, compared to how big most of the clientele of A-M's bars are. In a sense, he's one of nature's downtrodden - like the yudasgoat in FOC, like the goblins, and even (almost) like the Feegles - but without their tattoos, weapons, or fighting spirit. The only thing Nobby and the Feegles have in common is that once their enemy is defeated, they kick him when he's down. ;)

But Nobby and Colon share their cowardliness with two other major characters - Rincewind and Moist - and I think "cowardliness" is the wrong word. All four characters are placed in positions of extreme danger. All four of them want to survive, which is reasonable. The difference between them is in how they confront that danger:

1. Rincewind mostly runs away. But he occasionally turns and faces the danger, even though he's probably widdling his trousers. See the climaxes of TLF or Sourcery for examples.

2. Moist tries to avoid danger or outwit it. Sometimes he gets outside help (e.g. the goblin potion in RS).

3. Fred Colon sometimes runs away, but sometimes faces the danger when he doesn't even know it's there. (See the Fred-chased-by-a-golem scenes in FOC). Sometimes Fred faces danger when he has no choice (as in the Klatch scenes in Jingo).

4. Nobby mostly runs away from danger (e.g. when the conspirators try to make him king in FOC). Given his tiny stature and lack of strength, you can't blame him. :) He is obviously smarter than Colon, but they are both born survivors, and - like Moist and Rincewind - they are very, VERY lucky. :)
 

raisindot

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#11
2. Moist tries to avoid danger or outwit it. Sometimes he gets outside help (e.g. the goblin potion in RS).
Have to totally disagree with you here. Moist is the absolute opposite of a coward. His life is meaningless unless he's taking some kind of risk,a and he spent most of his GP career risking capture, hanging or both conducting his con games, which were never about getting money, and always about dancing on the edge. Throughout Going Postal and Making Money he took huge risks that could have cost him everything. At the Start of MM he needs to break into his own post office to recapture the thrill of risking it all. In Raising Steam he doesn't at first want to fight the bad guys but when he gets a taste of fighting he becomes a fully vested participant.

As for Colon and Nobby, they do generally try to hide in the shadows whenever danger is present. But when push comes to show both show their mettle. I'm thinking of the scene in Thud! when the Watch is the only thing separating a potential blood bath between the dwarfs and the trolls. Colon at least is right there, a little nervous but ready to fight--he even makes a Night Watch reference in reminding VImes of that time he and "young Sam" manned the barricades with "Keel" as their leader.
 

RathDarkblade

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#13
Hmm, yes ... Moist isn't a coward (in that he doesn't run away like Rincewind). I was thinking of the scene in RS, where he tries to rescue the goblins from the brigands in the Maquis. It's after dark, and Moist is very, very nervous about the upcoming fight. So
the goblins give him a potion to turn him into a berserker.
:)

I agree that Moist partakes in dangerous stunts, but those stunts usually don't involve him spilling blood (especially his own). In that, he is like Vimes in Jingo (in that he's opposed to fights or killing): "I'm supposed to protect the King's Peace, I am!" etc.
 

raisindot

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#14
I agree that Moist partakes in dangerous stunts, but those stunts usually don't involve him spilling blood (especially his own). In that, he is like Vimes in Jingo (in that he's opposed to fights or killing): "I'm supposed to protect the King's Peace, I am!" etc.
One could argue that Moist's danger-seeking stunts require much higher levels of bravery than of those that Vimes gets himself into. First, throughout his whole life Moist almost always voluntarily puts himself in danger of either getting killed on the spot or sentenced to the noose. And, unlike Vimes, who usually has either the Watch or a partner (like 71-Hour Achmed) at this side when facing life-threatening situations, Moist faces nearly all of his near-potential-death situations alone. His personal stakes are so much higher, even if his actions don't involve bloodshed.
 

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