Two questions about "Thud!" plot points

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Oct 1, 2009
Boston, MA USA
[Spoilers ahead]

I've asked these questions on other forums, but haven't had much response. so I'll try here. Thud! is my favorite DW novel. Anyway:

1. When Angua and Vimes go 'walkabout' in the mind during their meeting with Ardent, they come to the door where Vimes gets "pricked" with the Summoning Dark. We know later that a dead dwarf miner is on the other side. Why didn't Angua "smell" the dead miner here, since she certainly is able to smell Hamcrusher's corpose.

2. If we assume that "The Battle of Koom Valley" is a more or less accurate portrayal of the 2,000 trolls and dwarves engaged in the battle (we must assume so, otherwise there wouldn't need to be a Codex for it), how did Methodia Rascal "learn" the details that allowed him to render the battle with such accuracy? He didn't know Dwarfish (or Trollish, for that matter), so there's no way he could have understood what Bloodaxe and Shine were saying on the cube.

Just niggling points, but I wonder...

Jeff in Boston, MA, USA
Very good points... the Angua one may have been just a nose distraction, i.e. peppermint, or Carrots soap. I will have to look at it. It may just be a plot inconsistency tho.

Edit: I think Terry may have been working on the Carrot/Angua relationship more than her abilities, just a guess. Vimes needed a little more "psychic quantum" added to his character too maybe. Don'tcha love the way we massacree the English language over here? :twisted: Starting sentences with But, and And, when the texts clearly say not to do that... naughty naughty us, eh? Oh and how are the beans in Boston? Always wanted to ask that. My father taught me how to make extremely evil and delicious Cowboy beans with bacon and hamburger in a dish lined with those flat Tater-Tots... egads there I go drooling again. :laugh:

Jan Van Quirm

Nov 7, 2008
Dunheved, Kernow
Welcome Raisindot :laugh: .

Not so sure about #2, but when Angua's down there with Vimes and Carrot doesn't she pass out when they get to unsealing that area because her nose gets too overwhelmed so that's a possible explanation there plus Brick's scent is there too and fresher so too much information?

possibly #2 is because of the cube in some way and maybe with Methodia being mentally ill perhaps he's able to pick up some nuance even if he doesn't understand the words - the 2 Kings voices may have held some emotion he picked up on perhaps? Artists are very sensitive after all and there was fighting as well -I don't know that his Trolls and Dwarves were necessarily 'authentic' for the Battle either - it was the location that made the painting important and most decent artist would be able to produce decent studies of Dwarf-Troll combat


Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
Cardiff, Wales
It was a watertight door in the mine and therefore an airlock. No smell would have got through that. ;)

As to the battle - he may not have been able to speak Dwarf ot Troll, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have got guides and translators. He obviously spent a lot of time in the area as he got the mountains so perfectly and presumably he did research. I don't know about the Trolls, but I imagine the Dwarfs would have kept historical records of who was involved along with shield designs etc.

Welcome to the site raisindot! Interesting questions. :laugh:
Oct 1, 2009
Boston, MA USA
Thank you all for your kind welcome and your quick responses, BUT....

As Sam Vimes might say, "I wouldn't buy that for a ton of cabbage."

1. Angua's first descent into the mine is with Vimes alone. Carrot's not there. I don't think she "faints" until she's either down there with Sally and Carrot or on the third trip when she finally discovers the bodies. Watertight door--BALDERDASH! If she can "smell" a body two floors below, she can smell through a bloody door, wouldn'tchathink?

2. It didn't appear that Rascal did any real "study" of the battle. He originally went to Koom Valley because it was a nice place to paint, and found the cube in the process. I suppose during the 16 years it took him to paint the painting he might have done some research, but, again, why would he even have thought of the idea of painting the battle unless the cube--whose language he couldn't understand--told him to do it? It's true the characters in the painting are less important than the location, but the popularity of the Codex implied that the figures were quite accurate, down to the kinds of chain mail the dwarves were wearing. Since Rascal was, well, mentally challenged, it's hard to believe that a man being pursued by a chicken would spend a lot of time reading history books.

3. To Tina: And there's nothing wrong with starting sentences with conjunections. But not all the time. Unless it's necessary. Or relevant.

As far as baked beans are concerned, I can't stand the damn things. Now, Boston cream tea, Boston (all right, New England) clam chowder, and Sam Adams Boston lager are MUCH better, if not necessarily accurate, representations of our regional cuisine. Then again, we ARE the ones who caused all those problems for you folks over the pond, so you may take it with a grain of sea salt....


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