I can't rank them because it changes from moment to moment, but I agree that Equal Rites is weak. Part of it may be that it was not originally a Discworld story, but was adapted to fit. The places where the copyeditor missed changes that needed to be made show that. Granny supposedly taught Esk for three years, but she begins when Esk is eight and Esk is still eight years old when she arrives in UU. Esk also originally had only six brothers and was the seventh child. There is at least one scene where all the brothers are supposed to be mentioned, but there are only six names, and there is no indication of the seventh brother. Esk seems to have been originally eleven (the usual age for young British protagonists, probably because of the "eleven-plus" examination that used to determine their future education) and then made younger. This idea supports her naivete but it makes her wide range of training unbelievable to the point that the reader suspects she is lying to the boat people she travels with. The true main character is Granny, who is a new creation, nothing like what she becomes, but she is there at the birth and learns more during the trip to Ankh-Morpork than she expected to. Esk, as a minor character (pun built into the story), provides an external point of view for us and also gives Granny a way to be involved with the wizards as an outside agent. Granny is there at the end of the book in the last scene, being treated as at least an equal. It's a reasonably good first adventure for Granny.
5 Best and 5 Worst Discworld Novels
- Thread starter eternalmetal
- Start date
Amen to that. 
It's probably just me, but it doesn't read like an original story transplanted onto Discworld (I'm actually surprised at the list you've drawn up, as I confess I didn't notice such issues at the time). That bizarre stuff with the Dungeon Dimensions aside, I think it serves quite well as a sidestory to the big two-parter that preceded it (it's certainly more coherent than The Colour of Magic). At this point in the series, there was plenty of scope for extra worldbuilding.
I think a bigger part of the problem is that it lacks a strong cast. Granny is the sole exception, and Esk and Simon have their quirks and moments, and Archchancellor Cutangle starts showing some character near the end, but it's underwhelming otherwise. In fact, overall I think Equal Rites is an underwhelming Discworld book.
Part of what makes Discworld so entertaining is the wealth and diversity of the characters on display, and one book randomly pulled would probably contain some dozens of names and quirks. Even the slapdash The Colour of Magic had a bunch of memorable characters and concepts even besides the two protagonists, like Hrun and the singing sword, the early Patrician in communication with the Agatean empire officials, "inn-sewer-ants" Broadman, the cut-throat heroes and thieves and so on, the dragon warriors, the water troll, and the Krull astrochelonians and their golden-eyed inventor. By contrast, Equal Rites is almost entirely a vehicle for an early draft of Granny (a good draft, but a draft nonetheless).
Esk does have some notable character moments. I remember in particular the scene where she subverts Granny's advice about Borrowing and hijacks the eagle, only to get stuck and start losing her identity. Also, the concept of someone combining and contrasting witchcraft and wizardry is a natural way of making broader points about the two disciplines while still keeping things character-driven, which is what makes her general "serve-the-plot" nature feel less satisfying as a result.
Again, it's not "bad" per se, but it feels like it squanders its potential in a way most Discworld books rarely do, and by comparison comes across as underwhelming and forgettable.
It's probably just me, but it doesn't read like an original story transplanted onto Discworld (I'm actually surprised at the list you've drawn up, as I confess I didn't notice such issues at the time). That bizarre stuff with the Dungeon Dimensions aside, I think it serves quite well as a sidestory to the big two-parter that preceded it (it's certainly more coherent than The Colour of Magic). At this point in the series, there was plenty of scope for extra worldbuilding.
I think a bigger part of the problem is that it lacks a strong cast. Granny is the sole exception, and Esk and Simon have their quirks and moments, and Archchancellor Cutangle starts showing some character near the end, but it's underwhelming otherwise. In fact, overall I think Equal Rites is an underwhelming Discworld book.
Part of what makes Discworld so entertaining is the wealth and diversity of the characters on display, and one book randomly pulled would probably contain some dozens of names and quirks. Even the slapdash The Colour of Magic had a bunch of memorable characters and concepts even besides the two protagonists, like Hrun and the singing sword, the early Patrician in communication with the Agatean empire officials, "inn-sewer-ants" Broadman, the cut-throat heroes and thieves and so on, the dragon warriors, the water troll, and the Krull astrochelonians and their golden-eyed inventor. By contrast, Equal Rites is almost entirely a vehicle for an early draft of Granny (a good draft, but a draft nonetheless).
Esk does have some notable character moments. I remember in particular the scene where she subverts Granny's advice about Borrowing and hijacks the eagle, only to get stuck and start losing her identity. Also, the concept of someone combining and contrasting witchcraft and wizardry is a natural way of making broader points about the two disciplines while still keeping things character-driven, which is what makes her general "serve-the-plot" nature feel less satisfying as a result.
Again, it's not "bad" per se, but it feels like it squanders its potential in a way most Discworld books rarely do, and by comparison comes across as underwhelming and forgettable.
Oh, I dunno. I thought the Zoons, the boat people, were fairly memorable. I liked the character of the caravan leader, too. Madame Goatfounder sticks in the mind rather well, and she generously gave Granny her broom. The villainous innkeepers got their comeuppance, too, though the real villain of the piece was the staff. I'd call it an exercise in learning to focus the story. Pterry was still working at his day job and writing on nights and weekends.
As to whether it was originally a non-Discworld story, that was my speculation. The age change may not have been external but the change in the number of brothers looked to me like a last-minute graft; still, both could have been a simple matter of suddenly remembering that eight was supposed to be a magical number and switching two of them with a global search-and-replace, forgetting that there were other things that needed to be fixed to match. I admit I didn't notice the discrepancies myself for fifteen or twenty years. Discussing the books makes me look closer and actually think about things instead of just floating along enjoying the story.
As to whether it was originally a non-Discworld story, that was my speculation. The age change may not have been external but the change in the number of brothers looked to me like a last-minute graft; still, both could have been a simple matter of suddenly remembering that eight was supposed to be a magical number and switching two of them with a global search-and-replace, forgetting that there were other things that needed to be fixed to match. I admit I didn't notice the discrepancies myself for fifteen or twenty years. Discussing the books makes me look closer and actually think about things instead of just floating along enjoying the story.
I always got the feeling that the Disc World wasn't initially intended to be a series but was a convenient place to locate Equal Rites, having already had some of the foundations laid down. Mort followed and really was the jumping off point for the DW to evolve and it was probably around this time that Terry decided to make it the setting for the majority of his books that were to follow.
My two cents, and it looks like some people's list are mirrors images of others, hah.
Best:
Feet of Clay - it's very, very hard to select a favorite Discworld but I believe the honors in my case goes to this one. I'm not crazy about the Night Watch series in general, but this book is simply exceptional.
Reaper Man - most of the Death books are excellent to fantastic, and this one is the best. Love, love, love the ending conversation between Death and that one spirit... forgot its name, the big boss of Death.
Witches Abroad - my favorite Witches book. Takes on fairy tales, and it's hilarious, especially if you know French or Spanish. Plus, Granny's family. Good stuff.
Thief of Time- just re-read it last week and it's got everything. Death, the Auditors, the History Monks, Igor, a mad scientist and DEATH BY CHOCOLATE!
Going Postal- I just love this book. I can't quite say why, I just DO. Thrilled it got a movie!
Worst
Monstrous Regiment- Not a bad book exactly but loses a lot of points for me by not really feeling like a DW book. To this date it's the one book I can't think of as canon DW. It feels more like a standalone, like Dodger or Nation.
Sourcery- a weak book that doesn't quite fit in. I think it would have been different if written later.
Color of Magic- Honors to it as starting it all (and it was my first DW book), but it's just too fragmented. And two of its sections-- the dragon riders and the astronomers of Krull-- don't fit in with the later books AT ALL. That said, love the Conan parodies.
Wyrd Sisters- Some cite it as one of their favorites, but though I enjoyed it somewhat more on re-reads I still don't feel it's a strong effort. Something about it didn't click with me and it felt dry. Also, plot twist inconsistencies.
I Shall Wear Midnight- Ventures into territory that DW just shouldn't go into IMO.
But, you know, a mediocre effort by Pratchett is still a good book by any standards.
Best:
Feet of Clay - it's very, very hard to select a favorite Discworld but I believe the honors in my case goes to this one. I'm not crazy about the Night Watch series in general, but this book is simply exceptional.
Reaper Man - most of the Death books are excellent to fantastic, and this one is the best. Love, love, love the ending conversation between Death and that one spirit... forgot its name, the big boss of Death.
Witches Abroad - my favorite Witches book. Takes on fairy tales, and it's hilarious, especially if you know French or Spanish. Plus, Granny's family. Good stuff.
Thief of Time- just re-read it last week and it's got everything. Death, the Auditors, the History Monks, Igor, a mad scientist and DEATH BY CHOCOLATE!
Going Postal- I just love this book. I can't quite say why, I just DO. Thrilled it got a movie!
Worst
Monstrous Regiment- Not a bad book exactly but loses a lot of points for me by not really feeling like a DW book. To this date it's the one book I can't think of as canon DW. It feels more like a standalone, like Dodger or Nation.
Sourcery- a weak book that doesn't quite fit in. I think it would have been different if written later.
Color of Magic- Honors to it as starting it all (and it was my first DW book), but it's just too fragmented. And two of its sections-- the dragon riders and the astronomers of Krull-- don't fit in with the later books AT ALL. That said, love the Conan parodies.
Wyrd Sisters- Some cite it as one of their favorites, but though I enjoyed it somewhat more on re-reads I still don't feel it's a strong effort. Something about it didn't click with me and it felt dry. Also, plot twist inconsistencies.
I Shall Wear Midnight- Ventures into territory that DW just shouldn't go into IMO.
But, you know, a mediocre effort by Pratchett is still a good book by any standards.
Do you mean Azrael?
Hmmm... I enjoyed MR a lot more after I read more about real-life women who chucked it all in and joined various armies.
is self-evident, when you think about how vampires have to be obsessed with something, and her hallucinations about 'Charlie' are reminiscent of the Vietnam war. I think it's a hilarious book, especially when Lieutenant Blouse shows up; and, of course, it is a searing indictment of fundamentalist religion. Having said that, I think the ending is a bit predictable, which is too bad.
Sourcery is a strange one. It makes a lot more sense if you know about Norse mythology - Ragnarok and all that - and if you're aware of Omar Khayyam's poetry, which Terry references. However, the ending did remind me quite a lot of TLF.
By the way, I've noticed that two of your 'worst' books are Rincewind books. Not a big fan of Rincewind, I take it? I think that he's a fine character, but (obviously) a bit limited because all he does is try to act sensibly and run away. Of course, he always solves everyone's problems in spite of running away, so... *shrug*
hadas7 said:
Worst
Monstrous Regiment- Not a bad book exactly but loses a lot of points for me by not really feeling like a DW book. To this date it's the one book I can't think of as canon DW. It feels more like a standalone, like Dodger or Nation.
Sourcery- a weak book that doesn't quite fit in. I think it would have been different if written later.
Color of Magic- Honors to it as starting it all (and it was my first DW book), but it's just too fragmented. And two of its sections-- the dragon riders and the astronomers of Krull-- don't fit in with the later books AT ALL. That said, love the Conan parodies.
Wyrd Sisters- Some cite it as one of their favorites, but though I enjoyed it somewhat more on re-reads I still don't feel it's a strong effort. Something about it didn't click with me and it felt dry. Also, plot twist inconsistencies.
I Shall Wear Midnight- Ventures into territory that DW just shouldn't go into IMO.
Monstrous Regiment- Not a bad book exactly but loses a lot of points for me by not really feeling like a DW book. To this date it's the one book I can't think of as canon DW. It feels more like a standalone, like Dodger or Nation.
Sourcery- a weak book that doesn't quite fit in. I think it would have been different if written later.
Color of Magic- Honors to it as starting it all (and it was my first DW book), but it's just too fragmented. And two of its sections-- the dragon riders and the astronomers of Krull-- don't fit in with the later books AT ALL. That said, love the Conan parodies.
Wyrd Sisters- Some cite it as one of their favorites, but though I enjoyed it somewhat more on re-reads I still don't feel it's a strong effort. Something about it didn't click with me and it felt dry. Also, plot twist inconsistencies.
I Shall Wear Midnight- Ventures into territory that DW just shouldn't go into IMO.
Maladicta's addiction to coffee
Sourcery is a strange one. It makes a lot more sense if you know about Norse mythology - Ragnarok and all that - and if you're aware of Omar Khayyam's poetry, which Terry references. However, the ending did remind me quite a lot of TLF.
By the way, I've noticed that two of your 'worst' books are Rincewind books. Not a big fan of Rincewind, I take it?
I think that he's a fine character, but (obviously) a bit limited because all he does is try to act sensibly and run away. Of course, he always solves everyone's problems in spite of running away, so... *shrug*Do you mean Azrael?
Yup
Huh, I actually posted how my feelings about Rincewind changed. I didn't like him at first but I love him now. His books aren't my favorite though, it's true. Though I usually like them a lot better on re-reading.
I agree that the history behind women joining armies is absolutely fascinating, and generally I actually love women disguised as men stories (especially when you DON'T know a man is actually a girl until the big reveal!) MR is just too dark for me for a DW book-- like I said, it's a good book on its own, but it doesn't feel like a DW book somehow. It's the religious fanaticism aspect that may be the issue, as you pointed out.
Yup, I know Norse Mythology- I'm a huge fan of myths and fairy tales and I love it when Pratchett parodies those. Sourcery was just a little dry in some ways. Maybe it was because the child main character didn't quite work as a character until the end.
ETA: I got a huge kick out of Maladicta, BTW-- my favorite MR character.
Yup
Huh, I actually posted how my feelings about Rincewind changed. I didn't like him at first but I love him now. His books aren't my favorite though, it's true. Though I usually like them a lot better on re-reading.
I agree that the history behind women joining armies is absolutely fascinating, and generally I actually love women disguised as men stories (especially when you DON'T know a man is actually a girl until the big reveal!) MR is just too dark for me for a DW book-- like I said, it's a good book on its own, but it doesn't feel like a DW book somehow. It's the religious fanaticism aspect that may be the issue, as you pointed out.
Yup, I know Norse Mythology- I'm a huge fan of myths and fairy tales and I love it when Pratchett parodies those. Sourcery was just a little dry in some ways. Maybe it was because the child main character didn't quite work as a character until the end.
ETA: I got a huge kick out of Maladicta, BTW-- my favorite MR character.
Hmm, yes... yet MR is not the first Discworld book to criticise (or even feature) religious fanaticism - SM did so even more, and in bucket-loads. They're both pretty dark in their own ways, but perhaps MR is "dark" because it features war as well as religion, which are two of the worst things to ever put together. True, SM also features those two, but
- as you'd probably know if you've read SM.
Mind you, when I started reading history, I chose to focus on military history because the changes that wars and battles bring about are - perhaps - easier to understand. I moved on to political and counterfactual (i.e. "what if?") history, as well as other types. So perhaps MR didn't feel as dark to me as it might have.
Having said that, I enjoyed quite a few moments during MR - for instance...
...and, of course...
I suppose that, once the girls had
it all had to go pear-shaped, given the fact that Borogravia is so sexist - plus, thanks to Nuggan, completely mad. Thankfully, it ends up with a victory of sorts.
I'm sentimental like that.
What about you?
Hmm, maybe. You mean Nijel the Destroyer? I thought he was hilarious. The problem. from my POV, is that
What do you think?
True, SM also features those two, but
the war aspect never really gets going
Mind you, when I started reading history, I chose to focus on military history because the changes that wars and battles bring about are - perhaps - easier to understand. I moved on to political and counterfactual (i.e. "what if?") history, as well as other types. So perhaps MR didn't feel as dark to me as it might have.
Having said that, I enjoyed quite a few moments during MR - for instance...
1. The introduction of the characters, especially Carborundum and Maladicta;
2. The arrival at the "military stores", where one-size-doesn't-fit-anybody, and they have to cook horse;
3. The introduction of Lieutenant Blouse - heck, any scene with Lt. Blouse is hilarious;
4. The girls beating "Captain Hortentz" (aka Prince Heinrich) and his dragoons, and forcing them to hop out into the rain in the nuddy. :twisted: I loved it! Pterry is very inventive when it comes to the comeuppances dealt to bullies!
5. The girls taking the keep... and, well, the rest of it.
2. The arrival at the "military stores", where one-size-doesn't-fit-anybody, and they have to cook horse;
3. The introduction of Lieutenant Blouse - heck, any scene with Lt. Blouse is hilarious;
4. The girls beating "Captain Hortentz" (aka Prince Heinrich) and his dragoons, and forcing them to hop out into the rain in the nuddy. :twisted: I loved it!
Pterry is very inventive when it comes to the comeuppances dealt to bullies! 5. The girls taking the keep... and, well, the rest of it.
...and, of course...
Corporal Strappi finally getting his well-deserved comeuppance - and more than once!
I suppose that, once the girls had
let out the Borogravian prisoners,
Thankfully, it ends up with a victory of sorts.
I also had a few tears when Polly finally found her brother.
What about you?
Hmm, maybe. You mean Nijel the Destroyer? I thought he was hilarious.
The problem. from my POV, is that
although Nijel is very brave and worthy, he just doesn't have anything to back that up with - so like Rincewind, Nijel succeeds in spite of himself. So you end up with two Rincewind-types, which kind of spoils Rincewind's big scene because - in a sense - we've just seen it.
What do you think?
Oooh, I totally agree that Nijel and Rincewind were quite a bit alike...! So Rince had as much a shot with Conina as Nijel when it comes to it, but he's ultimately the even bigger loser, lol. Poor Rince, he never got a girl who appreciated him.
I'm a bit hazy about MR since it's been a while since I first read it, though I mean to re-read (or rather, listen to the audiobook) any day now, and then I'll post with my impressions. I tend to find that I almost always like the books more on re-read, if I felt lukewarm towards them at first that is. But I will have to disassociate MR from the Discworld canon to do this-- again, it just doesn't feel quite like Discworld somehow, to me. I think that "bleak" is the reason I feel this way about it-- and about parts I Shall Wear Midnight and Raising Steam (the only DW book I still need to finish...) Discworld shouldn't be bleak.
I'm a bit hazy about MR since it's been a while since I first read it, though I mean to re-read (or rather, listen to the audiobook) any day now, and then I'll post with my impressions. I tend to find that I almost always like the books more on re-read, if I felt lukewarm towards them at first that is. But I will have to disassociate MR from the Discworld canon to do this-- again, it just doesn't feel quite like Discworld somehow, to me. I think that "bleak" is the reason I feel this way about it-- and about parts I Shall Wear Midnight and Raising Steam (the only DW book I still need to finish...) Discworld shouldn't be bleak.
Well, perhaps. But just consider what topics MR and ISWM are dealing with: war (in MR's case) and, in ISWM's case,
and ultimately,
Under such circumstances, you would not expect the novel to be side-splittingly funny or cheery. Sure, there are funny scenes in both MR and ISWM - in ISWM, the Nac Mac Feegle are always good for a laugh!
- but ultimately, Tiffany's big scene is not going to be a cheery song-and-dance number, and that's fine! After all, Tiffany is being gradually built up to be Granny Weatherwax's replacement, and Granny was never a barrel of laughs either - but that's fine too.
immature pregnancy, abortion, child beating,
the Cunning Man - a Hiver-like being and personification of absolute, unreasoning hatred of witches (i.e. the kind that existed around the years 1300-1750 or so).
Under such circumstances, you would not expect the novel to be side-splittingly funny or cheery. Sure, there are funny scenes in both MR and ISWM - in ISWM, the Nac Mac Feegle are always good for a laugh!
- but ultimately, Tiffany's big scene is not going to be a cheery song-and-dance number, and that's fine! After all, Tiffany is being gradually built up to be Granny Weatherwax's replacement, and Granny was never a barrel of laughs either - but that's fine too.
I can't help noticing that all the "worst" ones feature Rincewind. Just a teense-weensy slight bias there? :twisted:
I also can't help thinking that labels such as "best" and "worst" are unhelpful. There's no such thing as best and worst in Discworld, or indeed in anything. The words "best" and "worst" are so ultimate that they preclude any attempt at discussion - person A says that book XYZ is the best/worst and that's that! - but since everybody's got an opinion, it'd be impossible for person B to persuade person A that book XYZ is not, in fact, all that good/bad etc.
For instance, I think that The Last Continent is a fine book, and very funny too. But then, I'm an Aussie so I get all the references.
I also can't help thinking that labels such as "best" and "worst" are unhelpful. There's no such thing as best and worst in Discworld, or indeed in anything. The words "best" and "worst" are so ultimate that they preclude any attempt at discussion - person A says that book XYZ is the best/worst and that's that! - but since everybody's got an opinion, it'd be impossible for person B to persuade person A that book XYZ is not, in fact, all that good/bad etc.
For instance, I think that The Last Continent is a fine book, and very funny too. But then, I'm an Aussie so I get all the references.
RathDarkblade said:
I can't help noticing that all the "worst" ones feature Rincewind. Just a teense-weensy slight bias there? :twisted:
The Rincewind books never enthused me, so they were the easiest to pick the 'worst' books from.
I also can't help thinking that labels such as "best" and "worst" are unhelpful. There's no such thing as best and worst in Discworld, or indeed in anything. The words "best" and "worst" are so ultimate that they preclude any attempt at discussion - person A says that book XYZ is the best/worst and that's that! - but since everybody's got an opinion, it'd be impossible for person B to persuade person A that book XYZ is not, in fact, all that good/bad etc.
For instance, I think that The Last Continent is a fine book, and very funny too. But then, I'm an Aussie so I get all the references.
For instance, I think that The Last Continent is a fine book, and very funny too. But then, I'm an Aussie so I get all the references.
I guess I like my Discworld a bit on the darker side, hence my choices of the 'best'!
RathDarkblade said:
I can't help noticing that all the "worst" ones feature Rincewind. Just a teense-weensy slight bias there? :twisted:
I also can't help thinking that labels such as "best" and "worst" are unhelpful. There's no such thing as best and worst in Discworld, or indeed in anything. The words "best" and "worst" are so ultimate that they preclude any attempt at discussion - person A says that book XYZ is the best/worst and that's that! - but since everybody's got an opinion, it'd be impossible for person B to persuade person A that book XYZ is not, in fact, all that good/bad etc.
For instance, I think that The Last Continent is a fine book, and very funny too. But then, I'm an Aussie so I get all the references.
I also can't help thinking that labels such as "best" and "worst" are unhelpful. There's no such thing as best and worst in Discworld, or indeed in anything. The words "best" and "worst" are so ultimate that they preclude any attempt at discussion - person A says that book XYZ is the best/worst and that's that! - but since everybody's got an opinion, it'd be impossible for person B to persuade person A that book XYZ is not, in fact, all that good/bad etc.
For instance, I think that The Last Continent is a fine book, and very funny too. But then, I'm an Aussie so I get all the references.
Since creating this topic Monstrous Regiment is starting to drift to the top of my list. I just relistened to the audiobook and thoroughly enjoyed it despite knowing the 'twist' from the beginning. To me it is one of those Discworld books that actually benefits from the knowledge of previous books. For example the whole Duchess thing isnt really explained, but the topic of god's coming into being through worship had been covered in previous books that give further context. Vimes' presense in the book is underwhelming, but is enhanced when you actually know his character, same with Angua, William de Worde, etc. This depth imo provides the type of Discworld immersion that is rarely seen in the other books, as most of them can usually stand alone. So I disagree with the previous assertion that this does not feel like a Discworld book. The lack of wizards and witches is kind of noteworthy though, tbh.
