Comparatively Fantastic! Our favourite authors

[cols]

Tony & Cols I've enjoyed some of Clarke's books but have found him a bit pompous at times. To be fair, I'm not sure if it's his writing or if I'm being influenced by my perception of his public persona..

Well I can appreciate that Straw Walker.One of the reasons I've never read JK Rowling is I saw her in a couple of interviews and I just found her very irritating. I'm sure that's not a good enough reason not to read one of her books but that's me!
I used to read Stephen King all the time and then he became openly arrogant ( maybe I just hadn't noticed before but the man has changed in the last ten years no doubt)and it put me right off adn I haven't read him since

 

[Straw Walker]

Thanks Cols, I'm glad I'm not the only one to be affected by personal appearances in that way. That's just another reason why Pterry is so popular, he's always been such a nice honest 'what you see is what you get' kind of man.

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Straw Walker - when I said Asimov was simple and little clumsy I think I meant this more as a compliment because keeping things plain only highlights the 'visionary' elements in his work? Arthur C. Clarke as Tony and Cols say was also a seminal sci-fi writer, but Asimov I'd say was just as influential if not more so and all the better for being accessible and clear too

Argh! and I meant to comment on Mr [Stephen] King too...
So this is an edit He is too prolific, too varied and so in some cases (most possibly) - too trite. I've enjoyed some of the early horror stuff and Stand By Me is another of my all time fave films (I adored River Phoenix) and I now find most of his books far to glib and almost formulaic? It's like - ooo yeah - we haven't had a decent shocker for about - shall we say 30 pages... get another one in and then we'll cosy again for another 2 - hell maybe 5 as I just excelled myself I think. That how I feel sometimes with his stuff anyway, just too mechanical in a way maybe.

Couldn't agree more Cols! I don't know about looks putting you off someone (although of course it does) but with writers I would say 'attitude' would certainly be something that would make me think 'urgh' if they came across as too pleased with themselves. I'd never read much Stephen King TBH as horror's not something I'm in to particularly, but I did read his first 'fantasy' book (it was so stinky my brain has wiped all memory of the title :twisted: ) and found it childish in the extreme, but I persevered, finished it and was left, for the 1st time when reading fantasy feeling like I'd been talked down to throughout. There were some nice touches - like wolves following a scent as a trail of colour and the closer the prey/target the more intense the colour - but the dialogue was wholly false bordering insulting to the intelligence and I never read another SK again :x

I think I must have read Arthur C. Clarke some time but for the life of me I can't recall having done so. With Space Odyssey so integral to the baby boomer life experience I think he's somehow ingrained in people of a certain age heads and I agree he was a very remarkable and influential author and scientist - wasn't he an adviser for NASA at some stage? I just remembered where I'd read him ROFLMAO - when I was 9 in school. We had a rather avant garde newly-qualified teacher and he brought Space Odyssey and had us reading passages aloud - the word phenomenon was ever-present and without fail we all stumbled over it because we'd never really come across a word that starts with FUH being written with a PH *laughs hysterically*

 

[chris.ph]

i love the robot series by asimov and one of my all time favourite books is islands in thge sky by arthur c clarke which my parents bought me in junior school in the 70s

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

...Tolkien is a b*gger on descriptions, but he can do them really well no trouble - the Eye of Sauron is fully depicted in that scene [the Mirror of Galadriel] and Peter Jackson had the best template possible for the CGI guys to interpret I have to agree with you (and be thankful) that both Pterry and Tolks more often get on with the story and let the reader be a part of internal visualising, however as a sometime illustrator, there is quite a lot of descriptive writing in there on locations more than character to be sure that is a tribute to PJ's faithfullness (mostly anyway) to the books because for the most part the scenery was spot on - the Argonath in particular, but many more, including Rivendell were so perfectly brought to life.

Silverstreak - I used to do that too! Do you remember there was a LotR album as well - by Bo Hansen a Swede I think? He was a friend of Jimi Hendrix and there were some ace synthesiser stuff on the LP. Happy days indeed!

that's Bo Hansson!

Just to come back on Tolkien's descriptive talents (or lack of them) for ME some quick examples of making much of very little

OK so mostly landscapes as I was saying and from the Hobbit a 'night' scene in Mirkwood which was based on a section where Bilbo keeps watch whilst the Dwarves sleep

A digital-collage from an idea for a fantasy view from Lothlorien to Rauros (the great waterfall that Boromir's body was consigned to)

and re-worked using my own photostock a couple of years later...

And finally a portrait of Glorfindel (outrageously missing from the Fellowship of the Ring where he was replaced by Liv Tyler as Elrond's daughter Arwen )

With the films as a stock source for portraits I find it v. hard now to independently 'visualise' the major characters now as it was so well cast, but with Glorfindel not being 'in it' our imaginations can run more freely as it were. I did this for a friend and co-mod from her collection of photographic castings and so Glo's a composite of a very handsome male model with another 'glamour' models hair (yes a male one - not Jordan :twisted: )

Those are all my own work (except where stated in the 1st Lothlorien pic) using sketches or manipulations of my own photos using Photoshop and/or Terragen

And as Howard Shore's beautiful soundtrack has eclipsed poor ole Bo's handiwork here's a link to a YouTube rendition of his interpretation of A Journey in the Dark (Moria/Khazad-dum) to take all us older Ringers back to the heady days of the late 60s when the paperback appeared for the 1st time - HERE

Several more of my LotR fanart pieces can be found HERE if I haven't already bored the pants off you! I've never done any Discworld pieces - I guess I'm too much in awe of Josh and Paul...

 

[Tonyblack]

Jan I'm impressed!

Actually, I've just watched the Fellowship of the Ring DVD, so I'm even more impressed! New Zealand had some great landscapes for the movies.

I was interested when reading the books just how little a part Arwen actually plays. But then there aren't a great many really good parts for women in the books with the exception of Eowen and Galadrial. Do orcs have mummys?

Giving Arwen more of a role sort of balanced things up a bit and Princess Aerosmith did a pretty good job.

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

The art direction and location selection in all 3 films but Fellowship in particular is simply stunnning Tony - when I first saw it on the big screen I was in tears of wonder and breathless with amazement just looking at the landscapes let alone the sad bits in the storyline... The Oscars they won for the production-oriented awards were all fully deserved as WETA and the other behind the scenes artists and technicians did an incredible job on all the films.

NZ has done v. nicely tourism-wise out of the films too even though the landscaping and building that was put in for the filming were all removed and it's all gone back to normal. It's certainly one of the few places that would tempt me to travel long-haul to visit these days.

Ms. Tyler's role profile of course had to be raised and the scriptwriters did a good job with integrating one of the Appendices - The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen - into the main movies quite nicely (except the absolutely dreadful and unnecessary excursion where Aragorn's wounded before Helms Deep). For dyed-in-the-wool fans however her substitution for Glorfindel in the movie (as the Hobbits and Aragorn try to evade the Black Riders coming into Rivendell) is not only taking liberties with the story but actually impossible in terms of canon Quite simply the Ringwraiths would have easily squished Arwen as she was a 'dark' elf because, unlike Glorfindel, she had not lived in Valinor so wouldn't have been that much more of a threat to them than Frodo. In fact the wraiths had met Glorfindel in a series of battles 1000 years earlier and basically had pooped their pants 'cos he was so scary - which is why Gandalf sent him out on his own to help Aragorn bring the Hobbits in safely... But that isn't all at apparent in LotR - that story's in the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales

Galadriel too doesn't get much of a show in the books, but in earlier eras she and her husband Celeborn were big hitters in ME politics and Tolkien had her rated with Feanor as the greatest elf to ever live - so a power role there at least even if not an action one. The Eowyn role is of course the only female worth a lick in the books, and in the academic works there are a few other empowered female warriors, but oddly mostly human rather than elves. Tolkien as an Edwardian was fairly disposed to having 'strong' female roles, but of course his sources were very inclined to the damsel in distress genres, which I'm told by my more sensible male forum friends is the reason why they really like the roleplay for ME as they can all be Robin Hood or Ivanhoe types

 

[Tonyblack]

I understand that Eowyn was inspired by Aethelflaed, King Alfred's daughter. Now there was a lady who kicked arse.

 

[silverstreak]

Jan,I've never heard of that album.I have had the experiance of seeing
Hendrix in the flesh -unforgetable.
I also agree about Stephan King,I used to really enjoy his work until I
saw an interview he gave.His arrogance was unbelievable and totally put
me off him and have not read any book of his since.

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Rounding up replies on Tolkien then I promise to 'rest' it *uncrosses fingers*

Orc Females/Mothers - they certainly had them because 'they bred like Elves and Men'. This is probably THE most contentious piece of canon 'fact' and it's a fascinating area of lore as Tolkien kept on changing his mind about the rise of the orc. Most hard evidence in the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales lean towards the 1st Dark Lord, Morgoth (Sauron's evil Vala boss) having 'created' them - however another 'hard' creation myth for Arda is that all Morgoth's little dabbles could not reproduce and the orcs could - so he had to corrupt the nature of a 'proper' race by mutilation, brainwashing (in effect) and necromancy and so Elves and Men come into the frame.

I think he (or more likely Sauron) used both, but they used Elves first as Men didn't come along until much later when there were already a ton of orcs fighting the dark Elves. Elves however have a supremely strong life force and would not be corrupted too easily so there's all kinds of problems with how it was done and there are some off the cuff refs to 'evil spirits' being part of the breeding plan... Nasty bloke was Morgoth

Where they kept the females - the brood mothers - is even more questionable (I'm actually 2/3rds of the way into writing a piece of fanfic on this subject with a bio-genetic basis on the origins using the Elf theory ) My best guess as to the Third Age orcs (LotR era) is that female orcs looked and behaved like the males and were there all the time! :twisted: The Uruk Hai of Isengard were rumoured to have been bred on human women, but they are a much later 'strain' and more physically developed (mentally too as they were more 'stable' and disciplined) but not as large a population base as the 'classic' Misty Mountain orc.

Eowyn - a very feisty lady and yes based on a number of warrior women in the Dark Ages or even before. In fact female fighters were not a rarity in the Celtic tribes in all parts of the modern UK and in continental Europe but particularly in Ireland (Queen Maeve/Mabh) and of course in Essex where Boedicea/Budicca led the Iceni in an serious uprising against the Romans, flattening Londinium in the process - and she definitely was a hand's on general, though she most likely didn't have great scythes on her chariot... I think that Tolkien based Eowyn more on the Celtic model rather than the Saxon (like Alfred's daughter of course) as they were definitely into horses with a vengeance and so leaned towards cavalry style warfare (there is good cause to connect the myth of centaurs to the early Celtic tribal incursion to the east of their original homelands in the alps and central Europe) - so as she says she's a 'shieldmaiden' and not that unusual...

 

[Lady Vetinari]

I love John Le Carre, Charles Dickens, Jane Austen, and CS Lewis.

Although JRR Tolkien did a realised world I do not like some of what he wrote, I do prefer the films to the story - particularly because they get rid of Tom Bombadil (a needless character imo, and one those two chapters annoyed me. They were on the run for crying out loud and they stop for two characters that bears NO relation to the rest?) Also, the film had the Elves fight alongside the humans at Helms Deep which I loved. The book left the humans to themselves. I know Terry loves him, but I can't share that admiration. Oh, and I'm glad they made Arwen more important in the film...

I'm not exactly a feminist, but I do like a more important female character which is why I prefer Lewis. He wrote Lucy as a feisty young girl that wanted to be a boy. I also like Jill Pole in Silver Chair.

I hope I am not going to get my eyes scratched out for this but I happen to like JK Rowling's world and as for stealing ideas: Nothing is new under the sun, and every author is a thief! But then she falls down in Deadly Hallows.

My absolute favourite book ever has to be Wind In the Willows by Kenneth Grahame.

At the moment I am reading several books including Dean Koontz, Terry of course, Charles Dickens, and I have started a NOVEL called Shadow of the Wind. I am also reading Ursula K LeGuins Earthsea Quartet.

My favourite latest fantasy author is Cecilia Dart-Thornton, The Bitterbynde Trilogy is just fantastic, and when I need help in creating atmosphere for my own books I read a few pages of her and I have enough inspiration for a hundred ... not that I plagiarise, not intentionally!

Oh, and I've started The Redwall Abbey series.

 

[Tonyblack]

I think you'll find there are a few of us who have read and enjoyed Rowling - that includes me. Although I don't know if I'll ever reread the books.

I've read most of the Redwall series and they are really good. I like to think of them as Wind in the Willows with attitude.

I read all the Narnia books and a few others by Lewis. He's a wonderful writer and I also like strong female roles in books. I've read his 'Space' trilogy and 'Till We Have Faces', which I'd recommend.

 

[chris.ph]

im about to start the first redwall book

 

[Lady Vetinari]

I read all the Narnia books and a few others by Lewis. He's a wonderful writer and I also like strong female roles in books. I've read his 'Space' trilogy and 'Till We Have Faces', which I'd recommend.

I am on the second Perelandra of the Cosmic trilogy, I do like it but I am not really a Sci-Fi fan (though I do like Star Wars, but not Star Trek - I am more a Fantasy person than Sci-Fi!)

I would love to get hold of his other works to. It would interest you to know that the Addison Walk (I think??) where he held many Religious debates with Tolkien was named after one of my ancestors, who's father was a Vicar. The ancestors full name is Joseph Addison, who was quite a literary figure of his day, his best friend for a time was Jonathan Swift, of Gullivers Travels fame. He was also born in Wiltshire.

So there is a lot of Literacy in my background. Is it surprising that I write?

 

[Tonyblack]

It's obviously in the genes Magrat!

If you get the chance, 'Till We Have Faces' is well worth trying to find. It's a retelling of the Psyche and Cupid story. I loaned my copy out and never got it back.

 

[Lady Vetinari]

It's obviously in the genes Magrat!

If you get the chance, 'Till We Have Faces' is well worth trying to find. It's a retelling of the Psyche and Cupid story. I loaned my copy out and never got it back.

My sympathies to you! I hate it when that happens, not that I let it happen to me. Some may call it selfish, I call it protecting my bank balance!

I will look out for that one.

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

I am on the second Perelandra of the Cosmic trilogy, I do like it but I am not really a Sci-Fi fan (though I do like Star Wars, but not Star Trek - I am more a Fantasy person than Sci-Fi!)

He's a fascinating writer is Lewis and I really cut my fantasy 'milk' teeth on the Narnia Chronicles. They was 'approved reading' in class but they only really looked at the 1st 3 books (so The Lion the Witch & the Wardrobe; Prince Caspian & Voyage of the Dawntreader). The thing that people tend to gloss over with Lewis and especially with the Narnia books with their population of talking animals and mixed bag of fairy folk and creatures of classical and medieval myth is that he's a very moral and Christian writer. Of course the sacrificial nature of Aslan (a little bit of a jump to reconcile Christ as being a lion in its natural state I know ) correlates like mad with the Crucifixion and Resurrection. I even had the shock of my life when one of the teaching nuns (I was at an RC secondary school) made us read through the bit in Dawntreader (SPOILER ALERT) where Eustace manages to shed several layers of dragon skin after being particularly and despicably nasty as some kind of rejection of evil and rebirthing ephithany - and of course that put me right off the books completely for a while!

The Silver Chair was my joint favourite - gotta lurve Puddleglum as he's such a miserable git! - along with The Last Battle. The latter's an amazing book and if you never got that far in the series I recommend it very highly for its imagery and dealing with the nature of heaven and redemption.

Lewis was famously friends with Tolkien who was a fairly devout Roman Catholic and he was influential in Lewis's conversion and the fact that he was a convert (to the Church of England) I think shows through all his books as he was a passionately moral writer but with a very strong spartan and oddly intolerant attitude to ‘weakness’ of the spirit although this softened somewhat after his marriage in later life. His work on the Cosmic Trilogy though concerned with the trappings of sci-fi are, I think more related to fantasy with Christian themes and motifs, and the second book, Perelendra with it's parallels to the Christian creation tales certainly is highly imaginative and more original than the first Out of the Silent Planet. The last of the Trilogy That Hideous Strength I found quite a disturbing book and very powerful indeed. The hero of the series a philologist (the science of linguistics) named Ransome (with a fondness for Switzerland and hiking is demonstrably based on Tolkien) and both Narnian and Middle Earth philosophic themes are seen in the series, with a very heavy dash of Arthurian principles and the Holy Grail story in the last book as Ransome, dying but still quietly strong in his faith, leads his friends to literally fight the Devil for the moral survival of the human soul in the modern universe.

On my ‘must read eventually’ list is the Screwtape Letters which are a letters style tale of an elder demon advising a younger on how to corrupt a soul – apparently it was required reading for aspiring Jesuits after its publication and in fact the Hell it depicts is highly similar to Pterry’s Eric with Astfgl’s Demonic Bureaucratic Regime… so again a link into Discworld perhaps, although I don’t know if Terry did use that as a source of inspiration it certainly is a devilishly similar solution :twisted:

 

[Tonyblack]

I'm pretty sure I've read that Terry read the Screwtape Letters and was inspired by them. I'm not sure where I read that - probably in the Annotations on L-Space.

 

[Lady Vetinari]

I saw Screwtape Letters in a 2nd hand bookshop but didn't have the money, it always comes to that!

I would love all his works, he is one of my heros. And I watched some of the BBC Voyage of the Dawn Treader being filmed, I met Warwick Davies on that shoot! Don't have photographic proof unfortunately but it only dawned - hah hah! on me when I read that Warwick was in Voyage I found the scene that we watched filmed in the book and then it struck me!

I met Reepicheep!

In the BBC Silver Chair Puddleglum was played by Tom Baker, Dr. Who connection, and personally he'd be a brilliant voice for a Golem!

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Tom Baker made a super Puddleglum acting-wise but I was put off by the wardrobe dept's making him look a lot like the Scarecrow in Wizard of Oz (but muddy ) and also he wasn't really skinny enough to be marsh-wriggle. If they'd had CGI back then he'd have been perfect - if they can make Ray Winston look like an authentically muscle-bound barbarian with it then they can do anything!

Jane Austen's been mentioned by myself and several other people now so perhaps we should have a look at some of the 'classics' and get some debate going...

I think I'd have to toss a coin between Pterry and Tolks as to who was my favourite author and actually I'd then have to do a knockout toss between the winner and Jane Austen who was, had the typewriter been invented, possibly the greatest (consistent) writer this country's ever produced... But it wasn't, so sorry Janey - I really wish you'd been born in WW2, lived in LA (or possibly in San Francisco 1st wearing a flower in your hair) because you'd have been a truly kickass screenwriter/director - maybe that's an idea for another thread actually: What if XXX author had been born in the 20th Cent (or whenever).

So - what do you think your fave classical author would be into if they'd been born into our generation? :twisted: