SPOILERS Mort Discussion *Spoilers*

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Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
30,854
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Cardiff, Wales
#61
Yes the coronation had to take place on a particular day - but because it was too late, Cutwell decided to have the wedding seconds after midnight of the previous day. This was done purely to allow the event to be on that day. If this was going to be the Duke's coronation, there is no reason why the event would take place at such an hour. The day is specified, but not the hour. Even having it moments after midnight, Cutwell is concerned that won't be enough time.
 

=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
12,011
2,900
#62
Tonyblack said:
If this was going to be the Duke's coronation, there is no reason why the event would take place at such an hour. The day is specified, but not the hour. Even having it moments after midnight, Cutwell is concerned that won't be enough time.
Luckily, Cutwell's estimate was slightly off so there was just barely enough time.
 

=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
12,011
2,900
#63
RolandItwasntmyfault suggested that Death had gotten retroactive permission from the gods after the whole fight, and thus Death had saved them on his own hook and then gotten permission later. Now I realize that is exactly what Mort did!
Hmm, it seems Mort had even more positive long-term effect on Death than I had realized.
 
Aug 18, 2014
7
1,750
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UK
#64
What I ALWAYS remember about Mort, is the fly-fishing part. OMG, i laughed like crazy! It's BRILLIANT

'The thing between Death's triumphant digits was a fly from the dawn of time. It was the fly in the primordial soup. It had bred on mammoth turds. It wasn't a fly that bangs on window panes, it was a fly that drills through walls.'


The rest of the book is amazing. I feel like in this book, DW goes to a new place, shows a little more deepness and darkness (even when equal rites did it before, but being lighter than Mort) and establishes loud and clear Death as a main part of the world. I mean, after Mort, I cannot imagine a DW without Death, my most beloved character, i think (sorry, granny is staring at me :whistle: )
 
Nov 28, 2014
9
1,750
44
pratchettjob.wordpress.com
#65
I'm late to the party on this - several years, in fact - but I'll still throw my oar in :laugh:

I agree with the post upthread that called this 'interesting but frustrating'. It and Equal Rites are the first *true* Discworld novels, I think. There's a tangible atmosphere and style to them that the first two lacked. It has more of a sense of place.

I'm also a big fan of the scene between Mort and the old woman. It's one of my favourite Pratchett scenes period although a lot of them feature the Grim Reaper in some shape or form. (As an aside, I've just finished Maskerade and the scene between Death and Granny, involving the cow and the baby, is the highlight of a fantastic book)

The ending really does need a lot of work, doesn't it? I feel the series is still a few books away from his mastery of plot and some epic endings. I don't really know what is going on. I hadn't spotted the SM retcon mentioned above though - that's a cool though, although I have real problems with Soul Music as well (I feel it's his weakest book after Sourcery. SUCH a missed opportunity).

I've a lot of love for Mort though. It was one of the first of his books that I read and I loved going back to it a few months ago. I've written more about it here, if you fancy something to read over a cuppa this morning :)
 
Aug 28, 2014
11
1,250
#66
FINALLY got around reading this one! Now it's my second "oldest" Discworld book I've completely read and finished, the "oldest" is Equal Rites. Funny thing, with Equal Rites I thought I would like it and didn't, and with Mort I thought it would be merely an amusing read and then it gripped me until the end. This was definitely the book where Pratchett found his "style" for the Discworld, in my opinion. I loved Mort, I loved the story of Princess/Queen Keli (I was all like "What, I know this name from later books!!"), I loved all the characters, especially Death's role in this (the kittens ;_;). From what I've heard the final duel between Mort and Death is a reference to another work - I don't know, I just thought it was awesome and badass. I love Death to - hah - death, he's one of my most favorite characters. A pity Mort and Ysabell were pretty much one shot characters, allthough I do like Susan
 

Mimpsey

Lance-Constable
Sep 24, 2015
14
1,250
#67
In my effort to read all of Discworld in order of publishing...I finished this one a couple of weeks ago....

I quite enjoyed it, and felt it to be quite superior to the novels that came before it...mostly since it felt like a full novel. The characters were for most part well drawn, and they each had moments that made me bellow with laughter. And like each of the books I have read thus far, it was more than funny...but actually clever; neat ideas sprinkled throughout and a way of looking at things that I hadn't come across before.

My main complaint would be the climax, I suppose. The final face-off with Death...that didn't seem to be the conclusion that the novel was building towards. It came out of no where...and left me rather confused. Rather like Sir Terry achieved a word count and thought it was time to wrap things up. Even the handling of the show down seemed rushed and incomplete...somehow...I don't know.

But most everything before that conclusion was a delight...so on to the next!
 

raisindot

Sergeant-at-Arms
Oct 1, 2009
5,135
2,450
Boston, MA USA
#68
Mimpsey said:
My main complaint would be the climax, I suppose. The final face-off with Death...that didn't seem to be the conclusion that the novel was building towards. It came out of no where...and left me rather confused. Rather like Sir Terry achieved a word count and thought it was time to wrap things up. Even the handling of the show down seemed rushed and incomplete...somehow...I don't know.
Having reread Mort recently, I think I agree with you in part. It was a bit slapdash, but the early novels were like that in some ways--a bit rougher around the edges. Death in Mort becomes a much more fleshed-out (har har!) character over time. A lot of the head-scratching stuff disappears and he becomes a lot more intellectual. When he does go into battle, the stakes are a lot higher and ithe "barroom brawlishness" is left behind.

NON-MORT SPOILER AHEAD

However, the climactic battle at the end is a feature of most of the DW books. It almost always involves a figure of a certain strength and heroimm facing off against a villain or monster that, on the surface, seems much much stronger.
 

Mimpsey

Lance-Constable
Sep 24, 2015
14
1,250
#69
"However, the climactic battle at the end is a feature of most of the DW books. It almost always involves a figure of a certain strength and heroimm facing off against a villain or monster that, on the surface, seems much much stronger."

Good to know...I can see how that would be a logical climax, and it would create a great deal of narrative tension. I just didn't see Death as being the antagonist of the novel. It seemed that Mort was contending mostly against reality...or maybe Reality with a capital "r". Perhaps that was the only way Sir Terry could find demonstrate that conflict...Death being the ultimate representation of said realty.

However...this seemed to require Death as a character to behave in ways that felt inconsistent with the character we had enjoyed earlier in the novel. I guess it might come down to Death's motivations...and perhaps someone might be able to help me in that area. He selected Mort as his apprentice by examining his life via his life timer...presumably so he could have some time off. Given how the climax played out...we see Mort's hourglass with only a few particles of sand left...meaning that Death intentionally selected someone who had...what...a couple of weeks?...to be his apprentice. Why he would do this...is confusing to me.

Perhaps if someone might be able to clarify Death's motivations...the conclusion would fall readily into place. o_O
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
30,854
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
#70
My thoughts about this are that, because Death and Mort had effectively switched roles, Death got to experience what it was like to be human. This is a turning point in the books for Death, and without giving too much away, his attitude to humans changes from this book onwards. Maybe he realises, from his experiences, that humans do things - sometimes illogical things, because of what they feel inside. Death experiences trying to find happiness and fulfilment, and eventually finds it working in a kitchen - an unlikely job, but he genuinely enjoys it. That empathy he learns gives him, at least a little understanding of why Mort did what he did. As to why Death chose someone who didn't have much time left - well, as we see from Albert and Ysabelle, humans don't die when they are in Death's realm. Their lives are on hold until they go back to living as humans again. That seems like a good enough reason for choosing someone who didn't have much time left. Mort won't die when he's in Death's realm and he won't die when he's standing in for Death while doing the Duty.

I'll just say at this point that this is not the last we'll see of Mort and a future book may go some way to explaining what happened at the end of this book. :shhh:
 

Mimpsey

Lance-Constable
Sep 24, 2015
14
1,250
#71
Good point regarding Mort not dying while in Death's realm...I had forgotten that bit when trying to fathom Death's motives for some of his actions...perhaps he was just trying to do Mort a favor...since he met Death's needs and would be dying so young anyway. Perhaps your allusion to future Mort appearances will also clarify a question I had about the climax. Mort is supposed to die while quite a young man (18?) and then Death flips his hourglass over. Now, in our reality this would simply double how much time he had...so...sometime in his thirties? Of course, in Discworld things can be a bit different.
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
30,854
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
#73
I always wondered about Death's motivation for taking on an apprentice. He clearly didn't need it . . . therefore is it about his adopted daughter, Ysabelle and finding her a spouse? I think I mentioned previously that Death is a little like Miss Haversham from Great Expectations, except that he actually thought he was doing good, rather than Miss H who was training Estella to hate men.

Love the Catalan cover! Is it the Marc Simonetti version? It certainly looks like it. :)
 

RathDarkblade

Moderator
City Watch
Mar 24, 2015
16,073
3,400
47
Melbourne, Victoria
#74
It's possible, Tony. In "Mort", Death is starting to show some of the more endearing features that would make him such a loved character. :)

Prior to "Mort" (say, in TCOM), Death was the classic Grim Reaper. He even repeats the classic "I had an appointment with you in Baghdad/Pseudopolis" shtick. ;)
 
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