Questions and thoughts re: the Harry Potter books
- Thread starter RathDarkblade
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Oh, $deity$.... now I'm sorry I opened up this Pandora's Box in the first place by talking about plagiarism! 
raisindot, I politely disagree with your statement that all fan-fiction is creatively bankrupt rubbish. However, I do agree that kids don't get taught to question what they read and think critically about it. So when someone writes dreck like Twilight, or ($deity$ help us) Fifty Shades - and it actually becomes successful - then it encourages wannabe writers to imitate it in the hope of making a quick buck, usually with disastrous results on the creative front.
Having said that, although a lot of fan-fiction these days is creative rubbish, not all of it is.
Quartermass, I agree with you that not all fan-fic is trash. If writing it makes you happy, then that's all that should matter!
This whole discussion inspired me to think about this decline in critical thinking. 20 years ago, I wrote fanfiction myself (based on Sierra's classic RPG adventure, Quest for Glory), and published it on several forums, including Sierra's official forum. Fan-fiction was permitted by Sierra, with the usual clause that it was not to be published for money. We were all, naturally, happy to oblige and accept this compromise.
Many things have happened since those simple days of dial-up. Faster and more accessible speeds, more and cheaper bandwidth, far more content than ever before. But this rise has not been accompanied, generally speaking, by teaching kids to take responsibility for actions, to make compromises, to think about how their actions affect other people. Instead, it's just a simple philosophy: "I WANNIT, IT'S MINE! GIMME DAT, IT'S MINE!!" I'm not saying that all kids are brats like that, but some are - and unfortunately, many adults are too. (Just look at a certain candidate for the US Presidency, for one. "I ALWAYS WIN! I NEVER LOSE!" etc.)
This is probably one reason, at least, as to why so much fan-fiction is such drivel. Wannabe writers want to make a quick buck without putting in the hard yards - it's as simple as that. Add to that the above attitude - e.g. "That character is cool! I'll use him" - and you end up with the Harry Potter knock-offs I mentioned earlier.
These days, I mostly write rigorously researched (but light-hearted) historical fiction. However, I certainly hope that no-one will accuse me of plagiarism if I write about (say) Owain Glyndŵr, Genghis Khan or Ivan the Terrible.
raisindot, I politely disagree with your statement that all fan-fiction is creatively bankrupt rubbish. However, I do agree that kids don't get taught to question what they read and think critically about it. So when someone writes dreck like Twilight, or ($deity$ help us) Fifty Shades - and it actually becomes successful - then it encourages wannabe writers to imitate it in the hope of making a quick buck, usually with disastrous results on the creative front.
Having said that, although a lot of fan-fiction these days is creative rubbish, not all of it is.
Quartermass, I agree with you that not all fan-fic is trash. If writing it makes you happy, then that's all that should matter!
This whole discussion inspired me to think about this decline in critical thinking. 20 years ago, I wrote fanfiction myself (based on Sierra's classic RPG adventure, Quest for Glory), and published it on several forums, including Sierra's official forum. Fan-fiction was permitted by Sierra, with the usual clause that it was not to be published for money. We were all, naturally, happy to oblige and accept this compromise.
Many things have happened since those simple days of dial-up. Faster and more accessible speeds, more and cheaper bandwidth, far more content than ever before. But this rise has not been accompanied, generally speaking, by teaching kids to take responsibility for actions, to make compromises, to think about how their actions affect other people. Instead, it's just a simple philosophy: "I WANNIT, IT'S MINE! GIMME DAT, IT'S MINE!!" I'm not saying that all kids are brats like that, but some are - and unfortunately, many adults are too. (Just look at a certain candidate for the US Presidency, for one. "I ALWAYS WIN! I NEVER LOSE!" etc.)
This is probably one reason, at least, as to why so much fan-fiction is such drivel. Wannabe writers want to make a quick buck without putting in the hard yards - it's as simple as that. Add to that the above attitude - e.g. "That character is cool! I'll use him" - and you end up with the Harry Potter knock-offs I mentioned earlier.
These days, I mostly write rigorously researched (but light-hearted) historical fiction. However, I certainly hope that no-one will accuse me of plagiarism if I write about (say) Owain Glyndŵr, Genghis Khan or Ivan the Terrible.
RathDarkblade said:
These days, I mostly write rigorously researched (but light-hearted) historical fiction. However, I certainly hope that no-one will accuse me of plagiarism if I write about (say) Owain Glyndŵr, Genghis Khan or Ivan the Terrible.
RathDarkblade said:
These days, I mostly write rigorously researched (but light-hearted) historical fiction. However, I certainly hope that no-one will accuse me of plagiarism if I write about (say) Owain Glyndŵr, Genghis Khan or Ivan the Terrible.
I am sooo late to this party, but I should point out that Eva Ibbotson was very gracious when someone used ideas from her book 'The Secret of Platform 13'. The story was about the heir to a magical kingdom, a young boy who knew nothing of his birth right, raised by an adoptive family who mistreated him and made him live below stairs. He had an adoptive brother who was a spoiled bully, but was eventually rescued by a giant and a witch. The way into the magical kingdom was through a secret door on platform 13 at King's Cross.
I almost never read fanfic. I did read one that I thought was excellent. It explained something I had wondered about, regarding two different works written in the same era about similar characters (though very different in important ways), and was itself a fine piece of work. It could not have been written without reference to those specific characters because its purpose was, in part, to explain one of their apparent differences. I think that it might legitimately come under the law that parody must comment on the original, although I doubt that most people would call it a parody in the usual sense. It's called "Green Ice" and it works with and comments on Lord Peter Wimsey and Bertie Wooster.
I'm sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. Yes, "Green Ice" is readily available. Here's the link:
https://archiveofourown.org/works/255163
https://archiveofourown.org/works/255163
Yes... I'm very sorry, Catch-up. That's one way to put it - I tried the first two and they didn't really "hook" me. I don't really read much fantasy fiction these days... for me, not much compares to Terry, Douglas, or Robert Rankin. For sci-fi, I prefer the classic giants - Isaac, Robert Heinlein, Phillip K. Dick, Larry Niven... sorry. I guess I'm an old dinosaur. *blushes*
Oh well. Diff'rent strokes, and all that.
That's one way to put it - I tried the first two and they didn't really "hook" me. I don't really read much fantasy fiction these days... for me, not much compares to Terry, Douglas, or Robert Rankin. For sci-fi, I prefer the classic giants - Isaac, Robert Heinlein, Phillip K. Dick, Larry Niven... sorry. I guess I'm an old dinosaur. *blushes*Oh well. Diff'rent strokes, and all that.
I think that makes two of us Rath. There isn't much out there that catches my imagination after Terry and I find more pleasure in rereading Discworld books than most new stuff. This is probably not a good thing and may well be coincidental but nearly every new author I pick up seems somewhat formulaic and shallow in comparison.
RathDarkblade said:
Yes... I'm very sorry, Catch-up. That's one way to put it - I tried the first two and they didn't really "hook" me. I don't really read much fantasy fiction these days... for me, not much compares to Terry, Douglas, or Robert Rankin. For sci-fi, I prefer the classic giants - Isaac, Robert Heinlein, Phillip K. Dick, Larry Niven... sorry. I guess I'm an old dinosaur. *blushes*
Oh well. Diff'rent strokes, and all that.
That's one way to put it - I tried the first two and they didn't really "hook" me. I don't really read much fantasy fiction these days... for me, not much compares to Terry, Douglas, or Robert Rankin. For sci-fi, I prefer the classic giants - Isaac, Robert Heinlein, Phillip K. Dick, Larry Niven... sorry. I guess I'm an old dinosaur. *blushes*Oh well. Diff'rent strokes, and all that.
Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them was not exactly a story, but it had the ingredients. The "author" was the explorer, and the thin little book was a list of imagined creatures he found, most of which (if not all) were at least mentioned in the Harry Potter series. However, as a spin-off I think it has potential, because it doesn't have to refer to the rest of the series at all - it can work as pure steampunk fantasy, the 18th or 19th century explorer finding unusual magical creatures.
The book itself is about a quarter of an inch thick, the same size and format as the companion volume giving the rules of Quidditch.
FBAWTFT has a green cover. Q has a red cover.
The book itself is about a quarter of an inch thick, the same size and format as the companion volume giving the rules of Quidditch.
FBAWTFT has a green cover. Q has a red cover.
The movie 'Fantastic Beasts' is entirely new - JK Rowling wrote the screenplay - and is a fairly entertaining film, if you liked the other HP films. The main character(s) seem to have accidentally stumbled into a plot of significance, but the visuals and the direction make it a fairly good film. It sounds like the sequel films are going to focus more on the "evil wizard" plot (this is basically Dumbledore's personal history, as hinted at in the books previously), and Newt Scamander is going to be less involved, which I think is a pity.
That being said, there's actually a *new* book for Fantastic Beasts out - it's the movie's screenplay.
That being said, there's actually a *new* book for Fantastic Beasts out - it's the movie's screenplay.
You know, it only just occurred to me today, but some of the plot of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them actually sounds a little like that of the Doctor Who story Nightmare of Eden. I'm not saying JK Rowling plagiarised that story by any means, the plots are, in the end very different, but there's still quite a bit of overlap.
Why? Well, there's an eccentric travelling zoologist with an improbable name who has a rather dubious method of capturing entire habitats and strange beasts in a device with vast interior dimensions that a person can walk into. Due to an accident from carelessness, some of the beasts escape and wreak havoc. Oh, and there's overzealous law enforcement authorities, an eccentric with a larger-on-the-inside living space, a glamorous woman helping him, a man hiding his identity from his enemies...oh, and a lot of silly costumes and names.
Actually, Nightmare of Eden is one of the better stories of that season of Doctor Who, despite the silliness and the heavy 'drugs are bad, mmm'kay' message. And there's another Doctor Who story with overlap: Carnival of Monsters.
Why? Well, there's an eccentric travelling zoologist with an improbable name who has a rather dubious method of capturing entire habitats and strange beasts in a device with vast interior dimensions that a person can walk into. Due to an accident from carelessness, some of the beasts escape and wreak havoc. Oh, and there's overzealous law enforcement authorities, an eccentric with a larger-on-the-inside living space, a glamorous woman helping him, a man hiding his identity from his enemies...oh, and a lot of silly costumes and names.
Actually, Nightmare of Eden is one of the better stories of that season of Doctor Who, despite the silliness and the heavy 'drugs are bad, mmm'kay' message. And there's another Doctor Who story with overlap: Carnival of Monsters.
