SPOILERS Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

[Tonyblack]

It is as you say, Rath. However it is also the word for a piece of soot from a steam engine.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Ooh! OK, I had no idea about that. Thanks, =Tamar and Tony.

 

[raisindot]

And while "shmutz" is a Yiddish word, it comes, as most Yiddish words do, from the German word schmutz.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Sure. Languages always influence each other and borrow from each other, that goes without saying. English has many, many examples of that; English 'borrowed' more words from more languages than ... well, almost any other language.

Just a few examples are "bungalow" (Hindi), "anonymous" (Greek), "guru" (Sanskrit), "safari" (Arabic), "cigar" (Spanish), "cookie" (Dutch), "wanderlust" (German) ... I'm sure there are loads more.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Hmm. Something that just struck me while listening to the "Raising Steam" audiobook ...

Spoiler

After Ardent takes over from Rhys Rhysson, Igor wakes up Lady Margalotta to tell her the news - and she's not happy to be woken up, saying "Vhat is this? It isn't even dusk yet!"

Yet a few sentences later, she flies off to get the clacks fixed.

Since it's still daylight outside, how does she not turn to dust? Just wondering. I thought all vampires turned to dust in daylight (apart from the Magpyrs, obviously)?

 

[Tonyblack]

It seems that, maybe, reformed vampires have skills that their b-word drinking cousins don't. It's maybe how Otto manages to go wherever he wants, regardless of the light. I don't know that for sure, it's just an hypothesis.

 

[raisindot]

Carpe Jugulum is the book where the "new generation" of vampires is able to venture out into the daylight without being turned to dust. From them on, all vampires--or perhaps only the Black Ribonners--can venture outside during the day.

In The Fifth Elephant, Lady Margolotta rescues Vimes on the ladder, and pulls him up into daylight.

In The Truth, Otto von Chriek is able to be out in the daylight without turning into dust, although a loud flashbulb can cause this transformation.

In Thud! Sally and Otto are able to be out in the daylight, although she prefers to wear a hat.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Hmm ... well, I've been listening to some more of Stephen Briggs's marvellous narration of RS, and something else has come up that's a bit confusing:

Spoiler

Edith (and her friends) nearly cause a rail incident by creating an "impediment" on the tracks. Then they wave their pinafores at people to get them to slow down.

Moist gives her two bits of advice:

1. Get your pencil and turn it into a penny dreadful, they're all the rage;

2. Don't wave your pinafores at people in the dark, it gives people the wrong idea.

So I'm just wondering:

- Is #1 a reference to a book? It sounds familiar, but I can't place it.

- Does anyone know what #2 is all about? Is it a reference to prostitution or something similar? Just wondering.

Thanks!

 

[Tonyblack]

The kids waving their pinafores to stop a train is a big nod to the story The Railway Children by Edith Nesbit.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Oops! *blushes* And in RS, the eldest child is named Edith, and her father is Mr Nesbit, the railway worker. I could've just googled "Edith Nesbit". *blush*

Thanks, Tony!

 

[raisindot]

1. Get your pencil and turn it into a penny dreadful, they're all the rage;

2. Don't wave your pinafores at people in the dark, it gives people the wrong idea.[/spoiler]

Thanks!

Both are references to The Railway Childen. As Tony mentioned, the pinafore waving was a key scene in the book. and Moist's penny dreadful comments refers to the Railway Chlldren being originally published in a penny dreadful in London. He's basically telling her that if she wants to draw attention to herself by creating drama, do it as a book, rather than faking something a situation that could have cost lives.

 

[Woofb]

Both are references to The Railway Childen. As Tony mentioned, the pinafore waving was a key scene in the book. and Moist's penny dreadful comments refers to the Railway Chlldren being originally published in a penny dreadful in London. He's basically telling her that if she wants to draw attention to herself by creating drama, do it as a book, rather than faking something a situation that could have cost lives.

Absolutely. I think "The Railway Children" in this scene, and there's a Jane Austen avatar in Snuff

 

[=Tamar]

Otto's susceptibility seems to be more to the brightness of the light than the source. Other vampires mention going out on cloudy days. It's possible that Ankh-Morpork has more clouds than most places, being some what industrialized. Harry King's bonfires probably contribute to the smoke level. The railways will add to that elsewhere as well.

 

[Tonyblack]

Remember that, in the early books, trolls couldn't really go out in the sunshine either. It's rather more, I think, a case of Terry moving the goalposts to allow his characters to be in places that he needed them.

 

[raisindot]

Remember that, in the early books, trolls couldn't really go out in the sunshine either. It's rather more, I think, a case of Terry moving the goalposts to allow his characters to be in places that he needed them.

What Tony said. There's no need to overanalyze this.

But, to counter-argue the "cloudy city" argument, near the end of Thud! Otto has the Vimeses pose for photos on a hill overlooking Koom Valley in broad daylight and isn't affected at all. And Sally also stays out in daylight during that time, even though she wears a hat.

 

[RathDarkblade]

That's right! I remember in "The Light Fantastic", where Rincewind goes looking for onions after dark and finds trolls. Later on, Old Granddad stops his rampage when the sun comes up.

As Tony said, Terry's earlier books still follow the Tolkien-esque mold (albeit with an extra shine of parody).

 

[=Tamar]

One thing people forget. In each of I think the first seven or so books, there was a shift into a different universe. in each universe, the rules are different, the history is slightly different. (Mort, for example, and Soul Music)
Then we also have the Monks of TIme patching the trousers of time.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Eh? I'm confused, =Tamar. What do you mean by "a shift into a different universe", with different rules etc.? :\ TCOM and TLF, at least, are a continuation of each other.

To me, it seems like Pterry was exploring different strands of the same universe. There's no prima facie reason why "Mort" couldn't have existed in the same universe as "Soul Music" - Mort takes place in Death's kingdom and Sto Lat. "Soul Music" takes place in A-M, Llamedos, Scrote ... and Sto Lat (does it? I forget what happens there).

 

[=Tamar]

Check the end of Mort. Death at the wedding reception gives Mort the previous universe in a little ball. They are no longer in the same universe they started in.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Er ... I always thought of it as the same universe, except that Mort doesn't die but gets to marry Ysabell, and Princess Keli becomes Queen Kelirehenna I, Lord of Sto Lat, Protector of the Eight Protectorates and Empress of the Long Thin Debated Piece Hubwards of Sto Kerrig. It seemed to me that Death was impressed with Mort's and Ysabell's stubbornness, which led to his change of mind.

As for the previous universe in a little ball ... it's never mentioned again, although Death calls it "a Pearl of Reality", and mentions it could be a seed of a future world. (Note the word could. It just as easily could not).