Rons in Discworld

[RathDarkblade]

Just wondering - why are there so many Rons in the Discworld universe? There's Foul Ole Ron, of course, but there's also Glossy Ron ("Hogfather"), Ronron "Revelation Joe" Shuwadi, Ronald Rust, Ron's Pizza Hovel (Feet of Clay"), Ron Blunkett ("The Amazing Maurice and his Educated Rodents"), Ron Ormerod ("Good Omens"), and Roland de Chumsfanleigh (pronounced Chuffley - it's not his fault). I'm sure there are many, many more.

So why the name "Ron"? King Arthur's mythical spear is named Rhongomiant ("spear" + "striker, slayer") is mentioned in Culhwch, although only in passing; in Geoffrey of Monmouth's Historia Regum Britanniae ("The History of the Kings of Britain", c. 1136), it appears as simply Ron ("spear"). Could that be where the mythical "Ron" came from? Even if not, it's a happy coincidence.

Any ideas? Curious minds wish to know ...

 

[raisindot]

Interesting. I don't think Pterry uses it to reference mythical things. I think it's that Ron is just a good old common English name that is often used in British comedy (i.e., the two Ronnies, Ron Obvious from Monty Python's Flying Circus, etc.). It's just kind of funny sounding, and has that kind of low-class everymanish connotation that a name like Dwayne or Bob has in the U.S. For that reason, Lord Ron "Ronnie" Rust is a humorous name because, the more you learn about the man, you see that he is a racist snob with the IQ of a desert troll.

 

[Dotsie]

I wouldn't say that Ron is a low-class name, but could be called working class (there is a big difference in the UK).

More than that, I think it's about as unmythical as you can get, which is why it's the perfect first name for Ronald Soak. It can also denote lack of imagination and creativity more than social status - hence Lord Rust, but I don't think he would ever be a Ron, always a Ronald, and Ronnie to aristocratic women (they have a marvellous way of infantilising grown men).

Roland isn't a name related to Ron, as far as I'm aware?

 

[RathDarkblade]

Roland isn't a name related to Ron, as far as I'm aware?

Hmm. I don't know... Is Roland is related to Ron? Or maybe I simply misread "Roland" as "Ronald", in which case - whoops! My mistake.

What about Ronron "Revelation Joe" Shuwadi? He's a Klatchian mystic invented the pizza - or at least, he claimed to have gotten the recipe from the Creator. *LOL* Again, the name "Ron" (as Dotsie pointed out) is about as un-mythical as you can get, so it's perfect for a mystic. Oh! And maybe this is an echo of Joseph Smith, who invented Mormonism? Joseph, "Revelation Joe"...

On the Discworld, the creation of pizza caused a hundred-year religious war of some kind, at the end of which the true believers were allowed to add a small bay leaf to the recipe. *L* But it's echoed later in FOC, when Vetinari is taken poorly, and Vimes gets him a Klatchian hots without anchovies from Ron's Pizza Hovel. (Pizza Hovel, Pizza Hut ... same thing!) *L*

So, maybe the Ron who owns the "Pizza Hovel" is a reincarnation of the famous Ronron? What do you think, hmm?

 

[Dotsie]

I think it is likely that 'Revelation Joe' refers to Joseph Smith, which serves as an indicator that Ronron Shuwadi is not in fact all that mystical. As does the name Ronron (so unmystical he named him twice), and the fact that his name is taken from the song Da Doo Ron Ron and the band Showaddywaddy.

I don't think he's an ancestor of Ron of the Pizza Hovel though, I think that's just coincidence.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Oh! *LOL* OK, then. I didn't think about that connection, but then I wasn't aware of the band Showaddywaddy.

For the longest time, I thought "Shuwadi" was a mix of "shu" (or shoe? Reg Shoe?) and "wadi" (which, in some Arabic-speaking countries, means "a valley, ravine, or channel that is dry except in the rainy season"). That would fit Ronron's image as a Klatchian. But yeah, I was wrong. Thanks, Dotsie!

 

[raisindot]

More than that, I think it's about as unmythical as you can get, which is why it's the perfect first name for Ronald Soak. It

Forgot about that ancient milkman/anthropomorphic representation. You really can't get a better, more mundane name for the alter-ego of a demi-god. It even beats Clark Kent.

 

[RathDarkblade]

"He left the group before they became famous". I wonder how many teenagers realise what that line refers to!

(Pete Best, to his credit, doesn't seem the least bit bitter about how successful the Beatles were).

 

[=Tamar]

I think the official story is that Ron was "Josh" Kirby's name, and Sir Terry was kidding around, always putting at least one Ron in every book. Of course, later he had to add a Harry and a Hermione or two.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Oh! *LOL* I didn't think about that, but you're right - Ron, Harry and Hermione. *L*

I was curious about where we meet Hermione, so I took a look - and found another multi-level pun. Aggghh!!! *smacks head* Terry, you sneaky punster, you.

 

[=Tamar]

I am fond of the fact that the new UU sports scarf has red and yellow stripes.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Oh? *raises eyebrow* Red and yellow? Why does this remind me of one of three things:

1. Manchester United;
2. Ketchup and mustard;
3. Gilbert and Sullivan's operetta "Patience", where Lady Jane - an aesthete, who (like all aesthete) prefers sombre and subdued colours - looks at the heavy dragoons' uniforms, sighs, and comments sarcastically: "Red and yellow! Primary colours! Oh, South Kensington!"

(To this, the Duke retorts: "We didn't design our uniforms, but we don't see how they could be improved!" *L* This was still in the days when the British military uniform for horsemen combined black trousers, a red vest, a yellow-gold belt, a yellow-gold sash across the chest, and a yellow-gold helmet - with horse-hair plume. You can still see the British horsemen wear it on ceremonial occasions. I myself wore it when I performed "Patience", and I must say that it was stiflingly hot, especially under the lights. How the real heavy dragoons managed, I just don't know.) *L*

So what's the story with the UU scarves? *curious*

 

[Dotsie]

Griffindor scarves are also red and yellow.

Manchester United colours are red and white btw.

 

[Tonyblack]

Definitely noticed the plethora of Rons (including Hruns) in the books. Also variations on a theme of the name Wilkins.

 

[=Tamar]

Although the scarves were never described in the first book (and if I recall correctly, also not in the later ones), the cover artist for the first Harry Potter book drew the character wearing a red and yellow striped scarf (horizontal stripes like a standard football supporter's scarf, not lengthwise). The movies took that and gave them scarves like that, but then in later movies changed the colors to gold and maroon (which were in style at the time the movies were made).
Then Sir Terry made red and yellow the colors of UU for UA, which implied that the UU supporters' scarves would be in that style. I was very pleased by that.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Griffindor scarves are also red and yellow.

Manchester United colours are red and white btw.

Whoops! I guess I was thinking of the "red-devil-on-yellow-background" thing.

Definitely noticed the plethora of Rons (including Hruns) in the books. Also variations on a theme of the name Wilkins.

Oh, that's true - Hrun the Barbarian from TCOM. I can't remember any others, though.

As for variations on the name Wilkins, I can name Vimes's butler, Willikins; a thief called Wilkins; and the several Mr Wilkinsons.

Who else was there? (Oh, and I guess this name was a tribute to Rob Wilkins?)

 

[Tonyblack]

Doreen Winkins (Countess Notfaroutou. And there was mention, in Witches Abroad of a Mr Wilkins, who Granny had made believe he was a frog.

 

[Dotsie]

Also variations on a theme of the name Wilkins.

As soon as I read that I thought of Mr Windling. Don't know if that counts though, it just fits into the same space on my brain.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Doreen Winkins (Countess Notfaroutou. And there was mention, in Witches Abroad of a Mr Wilkins, who Granny had made believe he was a frog.

*looks back* Oh! Tony, you're right...

“I always felt sorry for Mr. Wilkins,” said Magrat, staring moodily at the table top. “It was so sad watching him try to catch flies on his tongue.”

It's just a throw-away line - his name was never mentioned before or since. *is awed* How in the world did you remember his name?

As soon as I read that I thought of Mr Windling. Don't know if that counts though, it just fits into the same space on my brain.

Heh. Here is a nice pencil-drawing of Mr Windling.