SPOILERS The Long Earth **Spoilers**

[Jan Van Quirm]

Well they did have the 'carpetbagging' types covered in there with Russo (the one who tried to prospect the California alluvial gold and found other people already there doing the same thing). Then there was government intervention all over PDQ, except perhaps in over-populated Asian nations where the spare room came in really handy in hiving off a goodly proportion of people, but then that caused economic slumps which is also an impetus to bugger off as far as you could handle and be in charge of your own fate where corporate institutions can't rip you off and dictate your standard of living.

It's all in there - there's the guy who wants to get to Australia via Hawaii they meet in Happy Landing it's just that Joshua's a natural stepper and Lobsang's interested in exploring the parameters. The bit with the Elves and Joshua getting hurt happened at the point where he was getting fed up with just travelling for travelling's sake (which is more or less what he was doing at a slower pace before he was head-hunted by Lobsang) and wanted to stick around and we already knew he'd stand and fight if there were other factors than just his own hide to save with the situation with the super-boons. Lobsang knew he was in no sustained danger (and being disembodied had lost his sense of endangerment somewhat) and the Mark Twain was also a factor in his fight rather than flight reaction as that's his home base - material 'possessions' you value literally tie you down after all...

 

[Tonyblack]

I liked the bit about the prospector at Sutter's Mill because it showed what a profound effect this was having on the world. Suddenly, practically overnight, gold became worthless. Gold is mainly valuable because it's rare. If it is abundant it becomes practically useless.

And the colonists travelling vast distances. That makes good sense to me, especially if you look at the early pioneers in America for example. They wanted their own world where they could their lives as they wanted, that wasn't going to be spoiled by suddenly finding you had other people a few miles away with completely different ideas.

The settlement of America could have been a gradual migration from east to west, and it was to a degree, but there were always those who wanted to travel even further to settle where no one else was (apart from natives of course. ).

The danger and hardship seemed to be part of the adventure and I can imagine the need for challenge after living in a society where everything can be gotten relatively easily.

 

[mjjt]

I'm not sure that that is correct. Common idealistic view of wanting to "get away from civilization" or "back to Nature" that most abandon after one go at camping out. ('If god had wanted us to go camping, he would't have invented motels') (To support this I cite the irrefutable evidence of Calvin and Hobbes camping cartoons)

American migration of 1840's and 1850's explained almost solely in economic terms. 'Push' factors of the virgin land in East being taken, 'Pull' factors of opportunities in California and Oregon - gold and fertile farmland. They weren't trying to get away from everyone else.

So I didn't think it made sense to have people travelling 100,000 steps to find new land. The book suggests that Datum One would lose the bottom 20% of population. Maybe in India and China, but in the West very few wd swap their couches, their big TVs and fast food for a hardscrabble existence on a farm. Twenty steps from D1 wd get you to a land unlikely to be encroached upon for generations (and you'd still be able to get back in an emergency)

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

But that's the point with stepping really - most people were like Joshua in that they generally came back to Datum eventually. Maybe Joshua being a natural stepper meant he could stay away longer than usual, but I got the impression that a fair proportion of people treated Long Earth almost as a vacation/long weekend/leisure destination or, like Jansson, as a commute? Which is why it had such an immediate impact on the economy in Datum because people could just go without any restrictions, which is a huge attraction just in itself.

Even out in the 100,000's they still had contact as well - Jansson knew that Tilda had died of cancer but her son didn't because he ignored all their letters. People will look for new, better lives for all kinds of reasons - look at the Vietnamese Boat People or even the economic migrants (assisted passages) to Australia & NZ between the World Wars and in the 1940s/50s. A lot of those people were leaving relatively cushy lifestyles for the chance to own property or be their own bosses etc.

Seen in that light, where anyone who's not phobic can make a stepper and just go, it's not really that huge a risk once it's become a common activity, even though the 'one person per World' pipedream is obviously soon going to be a complete and utter washout on the Low Earths . If it really was possible and 'everyone' was doing it wouldn't you want to have at least a look...?

 

[Tiffany]

I have finished the book.
Can't say I understood some of it, but I enjoyed reading it. I never analyse a book, if I like it I read it cover to cover & I have no interest in why someone did that or said that or whatever. I liked the imagination of the story, the adventure, the discriptions of animals, the humanoid life forms & the thought there could be parallel worlds to Earth, it was just a good read to me.
A very novel use for potatoes too.
I think the blue print for making a Stepper should have been included in the text.

And, I still prefer The Discworld.

 

[Catch-up]

There's a blueprint for the stepper in the front of my copy. But, I don't have a potato.

Finished the book last night. I really enjoyed the concept. Loved the idea of the trolls and elves and that they're natural steppers, occasionally visiting our Earth. First thing I thought of was Bigfoot. My only complaint would be that some of the dialogue exchanges seemed awkward, particularly between Sally and Joshua. Some of it just didn't make sense to me. I also would hit sort of a mental stumbling block when an American character would use a very British word or phrase. Yes, I know, I'm sure there are thousands of examples of the reverse happening in movies and books that can be listed here! But, this was a first for me, so it stuck out. I'm looking forward to reading more! I want to know what happens next.

 

[Penfold]

A very novel use for potatoes too.
I think the blue print for making a Stepper should have been included in the text.

And, I still prefer The Discworld.

I've heard of potatoes being used as a battery before somewhere but I managed to dig out this science project on the net that some of you with children (or even without) might be interested in trying.

POTATO BATTERY

 

[Tonyblack]

I got the distinct feeling that the stepper device was actually only a placebo that brought out the deeply buried, natural stepping abilities of people. There was at least one case of someone who had discovered that the device worked even without a potato. I suspect we'll learn more about that in the next book.

 

[pip]

I got the distinct feeling that the stepper device was actually only a placebo that brought out the deeply buried, natural stepping abilities of people. There was at least one case of someone who had discovered that the device worked even without a potato. I suspect we'll learn more about that in the next book.

WAsn't that question asked and some people can only step with a stepper . Something about a fifth of people having the natural ability

 

[Tonyblack]

Well I kind of suspect that more and more of those people will discover the ability to naturally step. The whole thing about the user having to actually make the stepper themselves isn't all that logical and starts to sound more like magic than science. And this is sci fi rather than fantasy.

I'm reminded of A C Clarke's book, Childhood's End, which has humanity making an evolutionary step forward. Not everyone is able to make that step at first, but more and more become capable. Inevitably there are some who are never able to change.

Like I say, it will be interesting to see where Terry and Stephen take this.

Does anyone think it's odd that there seems to be only one world where humanity came into being? One would have expected that West 1 and East 1 and the other low numbers, would have evolved so similarly that there would be some form of human on them. I think this is another question that may be answered ultimately in the series.

 

[pip]

Well I kind of suspect that more and more of those people will discover the ability to naturally step. The whole thing about the user having to actually make the stepper themselves isn't all that logical and starts to sound more like magic than science. And this is sci fi rather than fantasy.

I'm reminded of A C Clarke's book, Childhood's End, which has humanity making an evolutionary step forward. Not everyone is able to make that step at first, but more and more become capable. Inevitably there are some who are never able to change.

Like I say, it will be interesting to see where Terry and Stephen take this.

Does anyone think it's odd that there seems to be only one world where humanity came into being? One would have expected that West 1 and East 1 and the other low numbers, would have evolved so similarly that there would be some form of human on them. I think this is another question that may be answered ultimately in the series.

To keep with Arthur C Clarke - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

And didn't humanity start on these other worlds based on the research that vicar was doing but something stopped it getting beyond the rift valley

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

In the alternative 'Code' thread on here we're skirting around the issue of why Homo Sapiens Sapiens only happens on Datum and it's basically to do with survival of the fittest in the guise of evolutionary persecution.

As well as 'only on Datum' why are trolls, elves and other stepping hominids are found all over the Long Earth but not (or very rarely) on Datum and also a more recent Roundworld hypothesis as to the relatively sudden disappearance of Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis after the Cro Magnon human sub-species arrived in their receding-glacial strongholds of Eurasia.

Also why only one world without a Moon or no Earth at all? What are the odds... :dance:

 

[Tiffany]

I've heard of potatoes being used as a battery before somewhere but I managed to dig out this science project on the net that some of you with children (or even without) might be interested in trying.

POTATO BATTERY

Thanks for the link, I remember doing that in Science I think many years ago, but didn't match it to the book.

 

[Tiffany]

In the alternative 'Code' thread on here we're skirting around the issue of why Homo Sapiens Sapiens only happens on Datum and it's basically to do with survival of the fittest in the guise of evolutionary persecution.

As well as 'only on Datum' why are trolls, elves and other stepping hominids are found all over the Long Earth but not (or very rarely) on Datum and also a more recent Roundworld hypothesis as to the relatively sudden disappearance of Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis after the Cro Magnon human sub-species arrived in their receding-glacial strongholds of Eurasia.

Also why only one world without a Moon or no Earth at all? What are the odds... :dance:

I think that's because they don't like crowded places, in the book it was said the Trolls were happy with a certain number of humans but when there were a lot more they, the Trolls left.
Hark at me, one who doesn't do analysis.

 

[Catch-up]

I agree that the stepper is a placebo and that's why people have to make their own for it to work. I did think it was odd that there were no other humans on any of those other Earths, but admit that I have no idea what the odds would be for it. I don't know that the trolls and elves developed on all the other worlds as much as they had access to them. It does make sense that at least some worlds had hominids.

 

[The Mad Collector]

Stepper plans posted on the internet with instructions

http://www.kurtnalty.com/LongEarth/Willis_Linsay_Stepper.pdf

 

[Tiffany]

Cheers, Mad. I have put that in my favourites bar. :clap:

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

I think that's because they don't like crowded places, in the book it was said the Trolls were happy with a certain number of humans but when there were a lot more they, the Trolls left.
Hark at me, one who doesn't do analysis.

:clap: Yup - that's the reason they're no longer present (or not for long) on Datum, but that then begs the question of whether they'd originally evolved on Datum or on another or more than one of the other Earths? This is the thing with quantum and for want of a better expression infinite realities.

I don't know if everyone's ever heard of Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen's lecture on whether an alien would look like us (co-authors with Terry of The Science of Discworld 1-3). This also deals with how, even with very similar conditions once the basic elements to support life are present, it would be highly unusual (with odds in the astronomic zone) for humans or any of the dominant species of pre-history to evolve in exactly the same way again. So with that 'rule' Datum has to be a one-off unique reality where either the ancestors of the Long Earth hominids didn't arise at all, went extinct in the Datum timeline, or were present on Datum but were forced to step away when modern humans evolved and won the Evolution Lottery (so far anyway).

It's also interesting with the Happy Landings community how they can trace back a human presence in or near the High Meggas back to the spread of the Roman Empire, which was arguably the most socially pervasive and widespread of the ancient empires to occur and encourage our natural-stepping forebears to have sufficient social pressure to migrate (or flee from First Person Singular) in the same way that the trolls and elves are doing. Books 2 & 3 will be v. interesting I think

 

[Tiffany]

I think books 2 & 3 will be very ineresting as well, Jan.

 

[stark]

Books 2 & 3 !!! oh you have to be kidding me. This is basically just making you read Stephen Baxter books by stealth. I have never in oooooh about 25 years read anything with STP's name on the cover that has disagreed with me so much.

I would wonder what had happened were it not for the fact that I had previously read one of Baxters books(Flood) and been bored to tears by it. His influence ranges long it seems. I'm astonished that anyone can find it gripping ( or in fact possessing of a plot)

For contrast read the short beginnings of the story which inspired this book. Tense, well written.

I do properly despair.