SPOILERS Going Postal Discussion *Spoilers*

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Discworldpadawan

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Jan 26, 2014
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Who's Wee Dug said:
Or Nigel Planer doing his Neil from the Young Ones, would have been excellent. :mrgreen:
Oh wow man, like, Heavy! Like, stop bringing me down with all of your negative energies, man!

Yep, Neil would have made a great Rincewind too, Wee Dug!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

Mixa

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Jan 1, 2014
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Tonyblack said:
I'd personally stick with the book. I am not a fan of the TV adaptations of the Discworld Books.
I agree with you. Moreover, Discworld is so special that everyone imagines it differently. For me it was already quite difficult to watch the other two adaptations, and although they were quite loyal to the plot, I have the impression that in Going Postal the scrip-writers have come up with different ideas.

Who's Wee Dug said:
OK C.O.M. was not that great, but good in parts, for me it was spoiled by a miscast of David Jason as Rincewind. :mrgreen:
Discworldpadawan said:
Couldn't agree more wee Dug! I enjoy David Jason's other roles, especially Del Boy, Obviously!!! But he just seemed too old to play Rincewind, - I imagine Rincewind to be tall, scrawny, cowardly and young, maybe someone more like shaggy from Scooby doo?!
I completely agree. It was strange for me to see him so old. With Moist happens the same: I’ve seen the trailer and… That guy is not in his twenties… :think: XD And Adora Belle… It seemed to me that she was performed as a hysterical pampered girl instead of the femme fatale that really is.

Tonyblack said:
As to the humour at pointing out how crooked the government is and how cynical voters are about the people they vote into power - well that's certainly a very British thing. We vote, we moan, we vote the same crooks in again and continue to moan. :mrgreen:
Well, I’ll tell you that that happens everywhere, believe me. Unfortunately we are exactly in the same situation. XD

Mx
 
Hm, yes, the TV adaption has some good part (I like how the clacks are shown), but many many differences to the book I rather cannot hold with ... Angua, how the golems look like, the whole love story overemphazising, "the moralizing healthy message for our kids concerning smoking" ... :eek: o_O


Mixa said:
Tonyblack said:
As to the humour at pointing out how crooked the government is and how cynical voters are about the people they vote into power - well that's certainly a very British thing. We vote, we moan, we vote the same crooks in again and continue to moan. :mrgreen:
Well, I’ll tell you that that happens everywhere, believe me. Unfortunately we are exactly in the same situation. XD
Uhm, yes, we too. :laugh:
I really had a really good laugh and recognisation when I read this sentences. :laugh:
 

Discworldpadawan

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Jan 26, 2014
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RolandItwasntmyfault said:
Hm, yes, the TV adaption has some good part (I like how the clacks are shown), but many many differences to the book I rather cannot hold with ... Angua, how the golems look like, the whole love story overemphazising, "the moralizing healthy message for our kids concerning smoking" ... :eek: o_O

I loved the Clacks intro Scene in the TV adaptation too Roland, especially the very beginning when the little old lady wants to send that clacks message and the clacksman sends it off through the system! You see all the little inner workings and workmen pulling levers to translate the message through the Grand Semaphore! And all the shutters opening and closing and mechanisms whirring etc etc :laugh: Its just as I imagined the clax system to be!!

Mixa, even though the tv adaptation does have its flaws and dosent follow the book to the exact letter (pardon the pun!), its worth watching it IF ONLY to see the Clax towers in operation! :laugh:
 
Discworldpadawan said:
I loved the Clacks intro Scene in the TV adaptation too Roland, especially the very beginning when the little old lady wants to send that clacks message and the clacksman sends it off through the system! You see all the little inner workings and workmen pulling levers to translate the message through the Grand Semaphore! And all the shutters opening and closing and mechanisms whirring etc etc :laugh: Its just as I imagined the clax system to be!!

Mixa, even though the tv adaptation does have its flaws and dosent follow the book to the exact letter (pardon the pun!), its worth watching it IF ONLY to see the Clax towers in operation! :laugh:
Yes, to not to be misunderstood: From a craftmanship's point of view it actually is a rather good movie. First to mention the clack's an particulary this sequence. I have to admit my inner picture of the clacks has been more like the actual semaphore systems as described in several naval fiction novels but as I watched the clacks operating in the movie I really get baffled, it is a view ... wow! Nevertheless the plot seems to be changed to follow a special kind of Dramaturgyvium which you apparently can't avoid in modern movies (some examples mentioned above) and those regularly get on my nerves. :rolleyes:

But you are right, the clacks watching in operation is a visual pleasure in itself. :)


Favourite part of the book ... uh, there a many little scenes which I really love, for example the big red eye in the crystall ball (first I was laughing because of the reference ... one second later I was laughing as I understood to whom this eye belongs :laugh: :laugh: ;)), but a real big text passage ... first I remember perhaps is the fire in the post office, or rather: You have rescued the people, but this doesn't matter, what matter is the cat, you has to rescue the cat! :laugh:
Or, ah, yes, a second part I also like very much: When Moist meets Gilt and he exactly can detect that he is also only is the same little crook and even tells it to the people who nevertheless get blinded (he is a pirate, he even has got a parrot!). And yes, of course, this "welcome to government service" passage, too.
Generally I like these observations of people's nature in the novels ... you recognize them again and again on roundworld.
 

Mixa

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RolandItwasntmyfault said:
Favourite part of the book ... uh, there a many little scenes which I really love


Yes, the same happened to me. I loved, moreover, the rivalry that Moist creates between the Post Office and the Grand Trunk. It’s like
“What is this man doing??? OMG, OMG, when Gilt finds out about this... He’s dead!!!” :laugh:

And the end, of course. Great! :clap:

Discworldpadawan said:
Mixa, even though the tv adaptation does have its flaws and dosent follow the book to the exact letter (pardon the pun!), its worth watching it IF ONLY to see the Clax towers in operation! :laugh:
All right, all right! If I can, I’ll have a look. ;) Thank you everyone for giving your opinion!

Mx
 

RathDarkblade

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*puts on his Necromancer's Robe and wields his Staff of Resurrection* ;)

In this thread, I accidentally-on-purpose digressed into discussing the "South Seas Bubble" - a financial scandal that hit London nearly 400 years ago. I summarised it in about 4-5 paragraphs.

The more I read and wrote about it, though, the more I was convinced that Pterry writing about Reacher Gilt's antics was - perhaps - inspired by the South Seas Bubble of the early 1720s. ;) Just observe - here are some things that happened during the Bubble, and how they correlate with "Going Postal":

* A large company has a monopoly. The South Seas Company had a monopoly on trade with the Spanish; the Grand Trunk has a monopoly on semaphore.

* Under-handed tactics raise the company's share price. The South Seas Company advertised itself as able to trade English wool for Spanish gold, thus inspiring people to invest in them. Reacher Gilt manipulated the Grand Trunk's share price, thus inspiring people to invest in the Trunk.

* As the share price rises, other unscrupulous persons enter the fray. In the South Seas Bubble, other companies advertised themselves as selling "round and square cannon balls" or even "a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is". They took the investors' money and disappeared with it.

In Going Postal, we see this with the entry of Moist von Lipwig. Just like the real-world crooks, he too wishes to use the Ankh-Morpork Post Office to make money and disappear. The big differences...? The unquestioning friendship offered by Groat and Stanley, Moist's... complicated... relationship with Adorabelle, and - of course - the fact that Vetinari is watching. :twisted:

Gilt also does the same in the book - except even more ruthless, with
his hostile take-over of the New Trunk and killing Adorabelle's brother.

* The share price keeps going up and up. In real-life, the South Sea Company's share-price smashed through ₤200, then ₤500, then ₤750, and finally ₤1,000 a share. (This is nearly ₤240,000 per share in modern terms). Investors grew more and more nervous.

In Going Postal, Reacher Gilt does the same - artificially inflating the Grand Trunk's share-price.

* The share-market finally collapses, leading to a crash. In real life, major investors in the South Sea Company sold their many shares and made a killing, leaving the mom-and-dad investors to face the music.

In the book, this happens because Moist pulls off his ultimate shenanigan -
with help from Adorabelle and the Smoking Gnu.
Nevertheless, the head of the Royal Bank of Ankh-Morpork is none too happy - leading on to the final point...

* The fate of the Company. In real life, the directors of the South Sea Company were charged with fraud, deception and other crimes, and thrown into the Tower of London; their estates were seized and sold by the new Lord of the Exchequer, Sir Robert Walpole, and the money used to relieve the investors who had lost everything; and the Company's shares were divided between the Bank of England and the East Empire Company. The common people so hated the directors of the South Sea Company that, since they could not lynch the directors, they burned them in effigy.

In the book, the directors of the Grand Trunk are
bundled off to jail to face interrogation from Lord Vetinari.
Their various banks and lending societies are
seized by the City (i.e. Vetinari's clerks) to help find out what happened.
And Reacher Gilt becomes, undoubtedly,
the greatest insurance risk in the world - before Mr Pump catches up with him.
;)

So what do you all think of my theory? Could it be correct - or, at least, one of the correct theories - about the overarching plot of Going Postal? :)
 

=Tamar

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The South Seas Bubble was certainly one of the famous ones and may even have set the pattern, but there were other Bubbles later. They are the reason that rules were set up for stock exchange transactions.
The main difference that I saw between the TV movie and the book was the dramatic end. The book at the end was more like a Busby Berkeley musical, with people moving in patterns, seen from above. Properly filmed it could have been lovely to watch, despite the sinister meaning in the words (which foreshadowed Making Money). However, I understand why the producers changed it to a more dramatic scene. They knew their TV-watching audience. The youth of today seem unable to appreciate any plot more complex than OMG/he loves me/OMG/someone died/OMG/there's an explosion; I say this having observed a highly intelligent (goes to a magnet school) 14-year-old who was theoretically watching the GP video with us and still had to ask at the end why there was any threat to anyone's life. We had ordered her to put away all technology (no phone, no iPad) so she was braiding a key chain tag, and she still couldn't follow the plot.
 

RathDarkblade

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I'm sorry, what is a magnet school? *confused*

****WARNING: Spoilers from the film coming up, so please don't read if you haven't seen the film****

I very much prefer the book to the film. I hated it when (in the film)
David Suchet, as Reacher Gilt, beat to death the actor playing Crispin Horsefry.
In the book,
Crispin's death
remains unexplained (though Vetinari refers to it), and we are left to draw our own conclusions - although I strongly suspect that
he was killed by Mr Gryle, the banshee.

I also very much prefer the book's ending to the film's. But then again, I think that the book's plot is much more sophisticated and refers to things (e.g. government patronage, corruption in business) that an average 14-year-old may find difficult to follow.

I didn't find the film difficult to follow at all - but then, I know the book fairly well. :)

If we are seeking to introduce a new generation to Discworld through film, then perhaps a film version of "The Wee Free Men" might work? I believe there is one being made right now, under Rihanna's watchful eye... ;)
 

raisindot

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Rath, the South Seas thesis is interesting, but I see the analogy in GP being closer to the dot.com bubble and bust of the late 90s and the crash that occurred shortly after Y2K. Hundred of high tech firms were started by very smart programmers who knew nothing about business and ended up being rooked by crooked venture capitalists and private equity funds that were solely there to steal as much money as they could by cutting expenses to the bones and rewarding themselves with huge management fees before selling off the companies at a huge profit. Reacher Gilt might also be Pterry's version of Donald Trump, another self-absorbed, flim-flam artist who convinced the banks to sink billions into his failing enterprises and used the threat of banktruptcy (and real bankruptcy) to scare the banks into continuing to bail him out, time after time.

And the main difference between the Grand Trunk and the South Seas ventures is that there were no "ordinary investors" in the GT--shares were held mainly by the banks. Ordinary people couldn't buy shares, although it is possible that some of the wealthy people in AM did own shares. And, in spite of its problems, the GT was always profitable, if only because Gilt had managed to keep it running without investing any money into it.
 

=Tamar

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RathDarkblade said:
I'm sorry, what is a magnet school? *confused*
A magnet school is one set up for particularly high-achieving students, to challenge them more than the usual state-supported schools, yet as far as I know, is still state-supported and does not charge tuition. A student at such a school is expected to be able to understand more difficult work than usual. Hence my disappointment at the apparent cluelessness; this is a kid who is very capable.
RathDarkblade said:
****WARNING: Spoilers from the film coming up, so please don't read if you haven't seen the film****
I strongly suspect that he was killed by Mr Gryle, the banshee.
I agree with that conclusion.
RathDarkblade said:
If we are seeking to introduce a new generation to Discworld through film, then perhaps a film version of "The Wee Free Men" might work? I believe there is one being made right now, under Rihanna's watchful eye... ;)
If it is well-done, maybe. But I tried already - I gave her a copy of the Illustrated Wee Free Men and as far as I know she has never opened the cover. No explanation why, though it's still on the bookshelves. I was hoping that seeing the movie (which is the liveliest of the three so far) would pique her interest.
 

RathDarkblade

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=Tamar said:
I say this having observed a highly intelligent (goes to a magnet school) 14-year-old who was theoretically watching the GP video with us and still had to ask at the end why there was any threat to anyone's life.
Seriously? GP starts with Moist being hanged and resurrected so that he can resurrect the Post Office. There is constant competition between Moist and Reacher, tension between Moist and Adorabelle/Moist and Vetinari - and a tension between Reacher and the rest of the Board of the GT. Plus, halfway through the film,
Crispin Horsefry gets beaten to death by Reacher -
a scene that I really didn't care for, by the way. :doh:

How could there not be any threat to anyone's life? Sigh. :doh:

Speaking of which, it's clear that Horsefry was simply
too stupid (or too honest - after all, he was keeping very careful track of the GT's accounts) to get involved with Reacher Gilt and survive.
So, was it Horsefry's stupidity or honesty that was his downfall? Or a bit of both - perhaps he was simply too gullible (although words like "honesty" and "gullibility" are not words that I would usually associate with the Board of the GT). ;) What's your view?

=Tamar said:
RathDarkblade said:
If we are seeking to introduce a new generation to Discworld through film, then perhaps a film version of "The Wee Free Men" might work? I believe there is one being made right now, under Rihanna's watchful eye... ;)
If it is well-done, maybe. But I tried already - I gave her a copy of the Illustrated Wee Free Men and as far as I know she has never opened the cover. No explanation why, though it's still on the bookshelves. I was hoping that seeing the movie (which is the liveliest of the three so far) would pique her interest.
Sigh. Well, teenagers usually follow their own course rather than do anything that any adult figure will suggest. I hope I can say this without sounding hurtful, but it sounds like this particular teenager doesn't have much patience or the ability to concentrate on one thing for too long. *blush* Please accept my sincere apologies if this is not so!
 

=Tamar

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RathDarkblade said:
So, was it Horsefry's stupidity or honesty that was his downfall? Or a bit of both - perhaps he was simply too gullible (although words like "honesty" and "gullibility" are not words that I would usually associate with the Board of the GT). ;) What's your view?
I think Horsefry was too stupid. He had to be aware that some of Gilt's methods were against the law, even in Ankh-Morpork. I think he was slightly OCD, even for a bookkeeper. I do see his point, that you have to remember what you did to be able to tell a consistent lie. That's one of the reasons given for why some people are honest - it's just easier. But Horsefry was too stupid to realize what Gilt's reaction would be. It's a shame, really; he was such an unthinking minion, and yet if he'd had a good boss to be loyal to, he'd have been an exemplary employee. Lord Vetinari could have found a place for him, I'm sure.
RathDarkblade said:
=Tamar said:
I was hoping that seeing the movie (which is the liveliest of the three so far) would pique her interest.
Sigh. Well, teenagers usually follow their own course rather than do anything that any adult figure will suggest. I hope I can say this without sounding hurtful, but it sounds like this particular teenager doesn't have much patience or the ability to concentrate on one thing for too long. *blush* Please accept my sincere apologies if this is not so!
Well, she's healthy, intelligent, active, and pleasant, and she does well in school. I guess I should give her time to become bored with ordinary stories so that she can appreciate the twists, assuming she ever gets around to reading the books. I just wanted to give her something that wasn't all-pervading gloom like the stuff the school assigned. (I still can't get over it: fourteen novels, and every single one a dystopia. You'd think they were trying to make kids hate reading.)
 

RathDarkblade

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Oh dear... what's the assigned reading? Brave New World, 1984, The Crucible and Animal Farm? :laugh:

Please note: I have nothing at all against Aldous Huxley, George Orwell or Arthur Miller. But too much of it is depressing.

I just hope that, on top of those four, there isn't also The Cherry Orchard or Crime and Punishment... ;)
 

Penfold

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I had 'Brave New World' at school but fortunately the English teacher was quite sensible and let me switch to John Wyndham 'Day of the Triffids' which was also on the curriculum. Actually, she was happy for the kids to put down a book they couldn't get on with and read something else instead. :laugh:
 

=Tamar

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RathDarkblade said:
Oh dear... what's the assigned reading? Brave New World, 1984, The Crucible and Animal Farm?
It's been a while, but yes, three of those were on the list (I'm not sure about The Crucible but I don't think it was there). Also The Yearling, Old Yeller, Ethan Frome, and probably Fahrenheit 451. I forget the rest. I was too shocked to make a copy of the list. It was pretty advanced reading content for kids their age.

I would much rather have had them read Going Postal, which could have been used for a discussion of all kinds of acceptably serious topics while still having a happy ending.
 

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