SPOILERS Hogfather Discussion **Spoilers**

[=Tamar]

It's been a long time - I watched it on VHS but I don't remember whether the American (Region 1) DVD release had captions. I think it didn't. I know the initial UK release did have them and I still feel there was no legitimate reason not to have included them on the American VHS tapes.

 

[Ponderstibbons]

This'll be a bit long but please bear with me.

One of my very favourite discworld novels; the characters are extremely strong, Teatime is a work of genius and probably the most interesting villain in any of the books.

It also shows us another side of DEATH only occasionally seen in preceding DEATH books and really explores Susan's character and how she's been dealing with life and independency post Reaper Man.

The plot itself is both riveting and hilarious and makes for a wonderful jaunt across Ankh-Morpork and surrounding areas while making each location essential to the continuation of the story itself

I think there are at least three major themes running throughout the novel.

Christmas: Pratchett really gets down to brass tacks here and pulls out the otherwise vague beginnings of the festival, shows us it's roots in the human psyche and the reason for it's existence; ignoring the excuses that have been overlaid by the introduction of new religions over time "It's all about the sun master, white snow and red blood and the sun. Always has been".

The Hogfather can be seen as a literal representation of Christmas itself. Originally beginning as a way to call the sun back and banish winter but changing over time to reflect numerous different popular interpretations and the rise and fall of religions. However if you look at him closely you can see where he came from, what he used to be and what to a certain extent he still is and always will be.

Belief in a semi-secular context: Belief in the context of religion has been explored previously in "Small Gods" and to a certain extent in "Reaper Man" in the form of life force. Pratchett turns the idea on it's head here and takes a look from a different angle while extending concepts already developed in SG i.e belief as a tangible, measurable force. He imagines how that affects people, what happens when a focus of belief disappears and even how it can be controlled or counteracted.

Next to this is the idea that it is used as a tool by humans to introduce larger concepts that while traditionally thought of as secular require someone to be capable of belief to understand and fight for them.

[I have a quote for this but it's too large for this post, please refer to pages 407-409 of HF for the conversation between Death and Susan (at least those are the correct pages in my BC edition).]

Poverty in times that are traditionally happy: Sir Terry throws a lot of new light on traditional christmas stories and how we view them by showing them through the eyes of DEATH while presenting the generally accepted view through Albert, in particular "The Little Match Girl" (see pages 209-211).

Stripy Tie. I just finished reading Hogfather for the first time today. You sum up the themes of the book I have just finished, perfectly. Thankyou

 

[Ponder]

I've got nothing much to add to this other than to say that I've just re-read The Hogfather over the Christmas period and have totally fallen in love with the Discworld all over again. I'm now planning to continue re-reading all of the books throughout 2024

 

[Tonyblack]

I've read all of the books multiple times and find new stuff to marvel at each time.

 

[Ponder]

I keep coming back to the Discworld and it feels so familiar - like coming home.

 

[AriEnNaxos]

I just finished re-reading the Hogfather. I read it a lot of years ago, and even saw the movie (sadly I didn't know so much english at that time and never found a subtitled version). I remembered the main things, like the Hogfather dying and the Thoot fairy land, but I didn't remember that almost all of it happens at the begining and we get directly to Death replacing the Hogfather. I think I expected some "Nightmare before Christmas" before Death wearing the false beard and the pillow.
This time, since I knew the plot beforehand, I found really interesting the beginnig with teatime taking the charriot and killing Ernie, I think the first time, by the time Teatime's plan was revealed, I had already forgotten the initial part, so I miked to have some things to notice at a re-reading, meaning I can read it many times and find new things I didn't notice or fullt comprehend the first time.
I like Susan's relationship with her grandfather since it is complicated, like real ones. She seems to like him, but also hates him being her relative and thus having super natural powers. At the same time, when she finds she has none at the Fairy Tooth land, she wants them back and doesn't enjoy "being normal" as much as she said she would.
Also another thing I find worth to mention is that Pterry writes in a manner that you as tthe reader needs to figure things out (like Susan being powerless since she got them from Death, and he doesn't exist in that place). You get the idea, but it is not fully explained by one of the carachters saying it outloud, or thinking about it. I find it refreshing in a time that the movies have the plot explained and re-explained lots of time during the event untill it becomes unbearable (you see something explode, some carachter say "oh, it exploeded", etc). I lone not being treated like as a reader I don't have a capability to think and understand unless actually being told.