SPOILERS Night Watch Discussion *spoilers*
- Thread starter Tonyblack
- Start date
Sorry-not-sorry to resurrect this post from the dead, but ... since I'll be travelling to Venice later this year (as part of my Italian sojourn/adventure/misadventure/delete whichever is inappropriate), I was looking up some things to do in Venice. Annnnd... 
I found this about Venice's souternmost suburb. From wikipedia:
So ... does "The Republic of Santa Margherita" remind you of anything?
"We're forming a government!"
"Oh, good," said Vimes wearily. "Another one. Just what we need."
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On a less jovial note, it also reminds me of Gabriele d'Annunzio and his Republic of Fiume. https://www.historytoday.com/miscellanies/fiume-escapade
I found this about Venice's souternmost suburb. From wikipedia:So ... does "The Republic of Santa Margherita" remind you of anything?
"We're forming a government!"
"Oh, good," said Vimes wearily. "Another one. Just what we need."
-----------------------------
On a less jovial note, it also reminds me of Gabriele d'Annunzio and his Republic of Fiume. https://www.historytoday.com/miscellanies/fiume-escapade
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=Tamar and Tonyblack
Hallo everyone!!
Being a bit of a map junkie, I’ve been trying to map out the geographical progression of the Glorious Republic, from its Whalebone Lane inception to “going metaphysical” near short street.
The only images I’ve found online seem to be from a defunct forum so don’t even know who they’re from, but they seemed to confirm :
Being a bit of a map junkie, I’ve been trying to map out the geographical progression of the Glorious Republic, from its Whalebone Lane inception to “going metaphysical” near short street.
The only images I’ve found online seem to be from a defunct forum so don’t even know who they’re from, but they seemed to confirm :
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Ok now here’s my work. Did I get the spread of the Republic right? Red streets for the Republic, the rest of the map is gray.
I tried to portray with different building colors the different phases of growth, eg yellow buildings with green roofs is the smallest republic (as soon as it goes from Whalebone Lane to Treacle Mine Road & Easy Street quadrant)
I tried to portray with different building colors the different phases of growth, eg yellow buildings with green roofs is the smallest republic (as soon as it goes from Whalebone Lane to Treacle Mine Road & Easy Street quadrant)
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Um, the street names are tiny (and it's been ages since I read Night Watch), so I've no idea about this. If it's true, then the Republic was absolutely massive.
I'll let someone with better eyes than me answer this. I'm not sure, sorry.
I'll let someone with better eyes than me answer this. I'm not sure, sorry.
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GabyChartley
"It's all gone a bit ... metaphysical, sir."
I love Vimes's reaction to this. "Fred ... did I ask you to do this?"
I love Vimes's reaction to this. "Fred ... did I ask you to do this?"
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GabyChartley
Many thanks!! I'll post a bigger pic once the full city is colored. Re: map title, should it be called
The Glorious Republic Of The 25th of May or perhaps just The Glorious Republic?
The Glorious Republic Of The 25th of May or perhaps just The Glorious Republic?
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RathDarkblade and Tonyblack
I vote for the full title: "The Glorious Republic Of The 25th of May". I think that's what it's called in the book, too ... but I may be wrong.
I think that's what it's called in the book, too ... but I may be wrong.
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GabyChartley
I can accept that Vimes physically looks a lot like John Keel but what I don't get is: why is Vimes able to convince people that he is John Keel even though Keel is in fact dead and lying in a morgue? I can imagine that someone from the Watch is aware of this and might have even put him there himself.
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Tonyblack
Navativium?
I guess it's a little like an episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine, where members of the crew travel back in time and Captain Sisko finds he has to take the identity of a major historical character, so the timeline doesn't change too much. In a later episode that major character appears as a photo of Sisko in a history book.
Vimes has changed history, so the world resets into a timeline where Vimes is Peel and Peel is Vimes.
It's probably Quantum.
I guess it's a little like an episode of Star Trek Deep Space Nine, where members of the crew travel back in time and Captain Sisko finds he has to take the identity of a major historical character, so the timeline doesn't change too much. In a later episode that major character appears as a photo of Sisko in a history book.
Vimes has changed history, so the world resets into a timeline where Vimes is Peel and Peel is Vimes.
It's probably Quantum.
I've been thinking more about this. Peel had only just arrived in Ankh-Morpork when Carcer killed him, so his face was not known. The fact that Carcer had not been there in the original timeline meant that he had not died and young Sam Vimes went on to remember Peel as a different person.
Because Carcer caused a branching in the timeline, Sir Samuel was able to step into Peel's place and thus cause a change in how things happened. When Vimes got back people like Vetinari recognised him at Vimes because they were now in the new, changed timeline.
Like I say . . . quantum.
Because Carcer caused a branching in the timeline, Sir Samuel was able to step into Peel's place and thus cause a change in how things happened. When Vimes got back people like Vetinari recognised him at Vimes because they were now in the new, changed timeline.
Like I say . . . quantum.
Ahem. The only people aware that John Keel is dead are Carcer (who killed Keel) and Ned Coates (who Carcer suborns because he suspects Vimes, but who Vimes later tells about his time-travelling, resulting in Coates changing sides again).
Ahem (again). Keel, not Peel, unless Vimes becomes Sir Robert Peel and founds the modern London police force.
In the original timeline, Keel would not have died and would have taught Young Sam Vimes all he knew about policing. Then Vimes would grow up to be the drunken cop we see in Guards! Guards!, etc.
The fact that Keel dies in this timeline, however, means that Vimes has to teach his own younger self all he knows, which is a job and a half.
Vetinari recognises him as Vimes because he knew him as Vimes for a long time, although in the past timeline, he knew him as John Keel.
Everyone else recognise him as Vimes because they never knew him as anything else.
... and the Monks of History, too. (Lu-Tze FTW!)
Ahem (again). Keel, not Peel, unless Vimes becomes Sir Robert Peel and founds the modern London police force.
In the original timeline, Keel would not have died and would have taught Young Sam Vimes all he knew about policing. Then Vimes would grow up to be the drunken cop we see in Guards! Guards!, etc.
The fact that Keel dies in this timeline, however, means that Vimes has to teach his own younger self all he knows, which is a job and a half.
Vetinari recognises him as Vimes because he knew him as Vimes for a long time, although in the past timeline, he knew him as John Keel.
Everyone else recognise him as Vimes because they never knew him as anything else.
Like I say . . . quantum.
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Tonyblack
Terry once said "there are no inconsistencies in Discworld, merely alternate pasts".
Of course, this was before he'd introduced the History Monks. And as the events of Thief of Time show (which directly leads into Night Watch), when history was shattered (twice!), the monks did their best to repair it but things are a bit patchy in places. (The example given by Lu Tze is that you have The Dysk theatre right across the road from the Opera House, and we know The Dysk was built perhaps 10-20 years previous to Night Watch - during Wyrd Sisters' 15 year time leap - and the Opera House has been there a hundred years-ish, and yet the styles of architecture seem to be centuries apart. So, you know, patchy)
Of course, this was before he'd introduced the History Monks. And as the events of Thief of Time show (which directly leads into Night Watch), when history was shattered (twice!), the monks did their best to repair it but things are a bit patchy in places. (The example given by Lu Tze is that you have The Dysk theatre right across the road from the Opera House, and we know The Dysk was built perhaps 10-20 years previous to Night Watch - during Wyrd Sisters' 15 year time leap - and the Opera House has been there a hundred years-ish, and yet the styles of architecture seem to be centuries apart. So, you know, patchy)
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RathDarkblade and Tonyblack
You are, of course right, that it's "Keel" not "Peel". I was confusing him with the British Radio One DJ John Peel.
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RathDarkblade
No worries. I thought, "Who else is associated with the police and called 'Peel'?" and 'Sir Robert Peel' jumped into my head in an instant.
Fun fact: when Sir Robert Peel became Prime Minister, his administration became infamous for nepotism, with many family members and hangers-on securing lucrative appointments. This gave rise to the now-common phrase, "Bob's your uncle" (meaning that everything will be all right).
I thought, "Who else is associated with the police and called 'Peel'?" and 'Sir Robert Peel' jumped into my head in an instant.Fun fact: when Sir Robert Peel became Prime Minister, his administration became infamous for nepotism, with many family members and hangers-on securing lucrative appointments. This gave rise to the now-common phrase, "Bob's your uncle" (meaning that everything will be all right).