American cover on ebook version of Unseen Academicals :-(

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poohcarrot

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#21
In Last Continent the luggage is there but not its kids. How often do mothers do a runner and leave their kids, compared to fathers?

Also UU is a male dominated institution and women used to be banned. I can't imagine the wizards would allow a female to play football.
 

Tonyblack

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#22
The thing is, the Luggage doesn't make it into the team - it's considered too homicidal. So as it's not in the team, it shouldn't be in the team picture --- should it? ;)
 
#24
I didn't really pick up on it mating, just that earlier in Interesting times it was surrounded by other luggages and then later Rincewind ran through a bunch of Sapient Pearwood trees on the way to the top of the "Hill" and toward the end there were two luggages. I am not sure they "mate" but I think they are "made" and develop relationships or hierachy of a sort.

Terry came up with the idea for the luggage while watching a large American female tourist pulling a ..."Recalcitrant" piece of luggage that was bouncing and seemed to be attempting to escape as it was jerkily following the tourist. He said he didn't see it as more than a temporary "plot gag"? I think and it, like others developed a personality and place in Discworld.
 
#25
***WARNING INFORMATION HERE IS NOT ABOUT THE THREAD***
***Or Suitable for Young Children!!!!!!***





poohcarrot said:
In Last Continent the luggage is there but not its kids. How often do mothers do a runner and leave their kids, compared to fathers?
Yes, some women are just not ready when it happens or willing to deal with it. In many states now there are laws that allow a woman or very, very young woman to drop a baby off at a hospital or a fire station or police department with no questions asked in order to stop infanticide here in the states. They have changed it from three days to 30 days in Illinois recently.

In my community, two months ago, there was a woman arrested for an outstanding small warrant in Kansas City MO. Now, she has been tied to a female infant wrapped in a garbage bag after being born alive and left to die in extreme below zero weather almost two years ago in a ditch . In the trunk of a car, hers, which was impounded a bit over a year ago, two more infant skeletons were found wrapped and mostly mummified. She is also the mother of an eight year old boy. There are forensic experts investigating to see if these two "probably" female infants are related to her also.

Women are no different from men in many respects, probably just as many as we do differ.

It is my belief that life is sacred. I believe that everyone can and should be allowed to live to serve a purpose. There are times when beliefs are stressed and pushed to the max.

I was not a wanted or desired child. My mother concieved me in order to "get a Man". My father never wanted children. All the publicity about these murdered female infants happened for about two weeks, every hour the news would shout out the latest information dug up about her and her family and all the theories.

Finally, someone decried it as "trying her before a trial or complete evidence" and they stopped. This was about two months ago, when I started to have my meltdowns. It is all tied together with why I am having issues right now. An icky take in this thread, but hey that's life and death.






***WARNING INFORMATION HERE IS NOT ABOUT THE THREAD***
***Or Suitable for Young Children!!!!!!***
 
#27
Aargh, Your wife is a big Hippo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or More Boiling Oil Please!!!!! Interesting Times.

I keep trying to add lines to keep children or sensitive people from inadvertently seeing my post, but it won't let me.




So There.


Now there are more spaces.
 

poohcarrot

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#28
Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit said:
I keep trying to add lines to keep children or sensitive people from inadvertently seeing my post, but it won't let me.
I'm a very sensitive person. :oops:

The most shocking thing about your post was that you can leave a baby at a fire station or police station! :eek:

I would mention something about abortion, but won't, because I'd probably be accused of US bashing, again. :twisted:
 
#29
poohcarrot said:
Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit said:
I keep trying to add lines to keep children or sensitive people from inadvertently seeing my post, but it won't let me.
I'm a very sensitive person. :oops:

The most shocking thing about your post was that you can leave a baby at a fire station or police station! :eek:

I would mention something about abortion, but won't, because I'd probably be accused of US bashing, again. :twisted:
It is a new thing. They are called "Safe Havens", they have a sign on the entryway to show that they are willing to save babies, and a button at the entrance. No cameras, no crime, just safe children. There a lots of anti-abortion groups who convince young women not to have abortions.

My opinion is "If you Can't trust me with a Choice, How can you trust me with a Child?". There are lots of girls who listen and then have no clue what to do when they wind up with a child.

There have been dead babies found in every state of the U.S. for as long as I have been alive. One happened about 11 years ago and would have been averted if Safe Havens had been around. A 15 year old kept her pregnancy hidden and she and her boyfriend had put the baby on a neighbor's back doorstep. They always got the paper first thing every morning. Unfortunately, the couple had left on vacation the night the birth happened, so that baby froze to death, it was in Poplar Grove IL, a very small town. The boyfriend came out about 4 years ago with the information. The girl became the "poster girl" for Safe Havens after she got out of prison.
 

Dotsie

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#30
Bringing this back to a slightly lighter note, maybe the luggage's little vanity cases grew up to be suitcases, so no running off occurred. And I'm not really sure if male/female applies to the luggage anyway (although my suitcase is definitely a girl :laugh: she's got butterflies on her)
 

Jan Van Quirm

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#31
The Luggage (UA) - isn't it obvious? It's a mobile locker room! :twisted:

The Luggage (gender) - it's made of wood so the bird analogy doesn't hold water too well, except that the females (especially the predators) are generally noticeably bigger than the male...
The 'seedlings' of necessity are generally found closer to the female tree (we have female and male holly trees so why not sapient pearwood as separate genders are generally indicative of higher development?). The Luggage is a bloke ;) :laugh:

Infanticide/Abortion - infanticide I think is effectively postponed abortion and very often psychotic in nature. Talking of nature, a form of abortion is actually a natural event in some species, including some rodents and some of the smaller antelopes, in that the females can 'suspend' their pregnancies if cirumstances are not good (if there's a drought etc) and then continue the pregnancy when circs improve. I think some of them can even 'absorb' the foetus which is then effectively destroyed, allowing the female to conceive again at a later date. The latter may perhaps be part of the same process when the pregnancy is suspended for too long perhaps.

Interesting case studies there Tina and I was reminded of a quite upsetting case back in the 1990's with a British girl who got arrested coming back to the UK when she went through security at the airport and was found to be carrying her drowned very premature baby clutched inside her coat. She was immediately jailed. About a year later the prison psychologists managed to get her released into the custody of a British psychologist and inevitably when they came back there was an interview with both of them on TV.
This was one of those situations where the girl was in complete denial about her pregnancy and didn't look it at all really. She was on a weekend trip to NYC with her boyfriend (who also had no idea about her being pregnant), felt 'unwell' had a bath and delivered the poor child there. She was terrified and thought the baby was dead - can you imagine the shock? - and so she not surprisingly panicked and left the baby in the bath where it of course drowned. They were going home the day after so she hid the dead child in their hotel room, but then decided to take it with her - this all made sense to her, which is why it was so obvious that she had not acted deliberately or 'in her right mind'.

Lots of 'what ifs' in this area, but in the UK, for most women having the option of abortion is I think a good thing overall and there is even a case for late abortion if the pregnancy is detected late (being wildly erratic in that deparment, I never knew I was pregnant because my baby had died before I had a test, which was negative, so I never knew she was there at all besides feeling 'icky', so 'not knowing' you're pregnant is certainly more than possible in the earlier stages at least) and some women just do not get the symptoms or the hormones so when the pregnancy is 'discovered' it can be a big shock. I'm not so in favour of 'elective' abortion where the mother is initially happy to be pregnant but then discovers the baby's deformed or even the 'wrong' sex in some cultures - but that's again better in some ways than going to term and then deciding whether to keep it or 'dump' it in some way, have it taken into care, adopted, whatever.

No good clearcut options with this but I agree with Tina, that being 'made' to keep someone you didn't want at all is futile in most respects and in a way almost begs for rejection of the child in some other way, future abuse or even the far worse situation where some women turn into serial baby-killers or are literally driven mad from keeping 'secrets' even from themselves. In this country, we've gone through the abort/pro-life arguments and out the other side to where where we now have 'benefit babies' as the most lucrative and 'ethical' alternative to abortion - some women decide not to use contraception, not to abort and not to give their child up for adoption, because a baby will get you quite nice assisted or free accommodation, quite generous state allowances and mostly allow you to avoid employment for several years because these girls (not being that stupid) generally decide to make a sort of career of being pregnant at every opportunity, whether or not the father(s) decides to stick around. Lucky we're a caring society... :cry:

:oops: Sorry Dotsie - this is a subject that always strikes a bitter note with me and as they say, better out than in :rolleyes:
 

Dotsie

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#32
Jan Van Quirm said:
I'm not so in favour of 'elective' abortion where the mother is initially happy to be pregnant but then discovers the baby's deformed
But how can you judge here? I know of a woman who gave birth to an anencephalic baby (no brain - in the days before keeping mothers informed), how could you wish that on anyone? Wouldn't it have been better to abort early in the pregnancy, rather than deliver a baby you know won't even live for a week? The decision to terminate a pregnancy for whatever reason must be a terrible one, I'm glad I never had to make that choice, and I have every sympathy for those that do :(

Sorry too Jan, but an emotive subject for lots I think.
 
Apr 29, 2009
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#33
I agree Dotsie, but there are cases where parents have been told that their child won't survive after birth, only for the baby to be born perfectly healthy.

Anyhoo, how the hell did we get onto this subject in a thread about UA's cover? :eek:
 

Jan Van Quirm

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#36
Dotsie said:
Jan Van Quirm said:
I'm not so in favour of 'elective' abortion where the mother is initially happy to be pregnant but then discovers the baby's deformed
But how can you judge here? I know of a woman who gave birth to an anencephalic baby (no brain - in the days before keeping mothers informed), how could you wish that on anyone? Wouldn't it have been better to abort early in the pregnancy, rather than deliver a baby you know won't even live for a week? The decision to terminate a pregnancy for whatever reason must be a terrible one, I'm glad I never had to make that choice, and I have every sympathy for those that do :(

Sorry too Jan, but an emotive subject for lots I think.
Certainly is which is why there has to be choices that are humane for both mother and baby :( . Late abortions are just incredibly distressing for all concerned and in cases like you mentioned, where there is absolutely no chance of survival or there are appalling disabilities where the quality of life is neglible then of course a termination is far, far more rational and kinder than trying to deliver a baby you know will die immediately, or might as well be dead if it can survive. That's possibly the situation I would have been a few month's down the line had my baby survived long enough to be detected, as 'spontaneous abortions' as early miscarriages are so callously termed, are exactly that - nature preventing the continuation of a foetus that will not make it.

I was more meaning late abortion is 'wrong' if there was a chance of a good amount of quality of life with a more 'manageable' physical incapacity, like Down's Syndrome for instance, or definitely for the more frivolous, cosmetic reasoning potentially being allowed these days. There's so much to take into account, even before insemination now we have IVF, where couples might select only males (or only females) which is terrible when it's basically on a whim, but that's a huge deal in some cultures. Even then there are arguments for foetal selection with one sex perhaps having a genetic advantage in aiding a sick sibling perhaps. The whole thing's fraught with too fine interpretation and odious compromises, but 'herding' prospective parents ('cos men are just as ambivalent or polarised on this subject) out of one option altogether is, I think quite wrong. I don't think I could ever have had a deliberate abortion myself, but I think/know that the option has to be there to stop even worse scenarios playing out.

Anyway - sorry for prolonging this. Am done now :oops:

And yay Bikkit! We need to find out more about your theory hon! :laugh:
 

Tonyblack

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#38
:laugh: I'm not even sure how a topic about DW covers got onto abortions in the first place. This site amazes me sometimes. :laugh:
 

Jan Van Quirm

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#39
Pooh was wondering whether it was male or female luggage who were in the habit of running out on their offspring/seedlings and Tina ran with it and passed to me :oops: I think we sort of got there that the Luggage is a bloke (well I did anyway...) :oops:

Although it would be interesting to find out about how sapient pearwood reproduces, but I guess that's pushing it too much :twisted:
 

poohcarrot

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#40
Jan Van Quirm said:
Pooh was wondering whether it was male or female luggage who were in the habit of running out on their offspring/seedlings and Tina ran with it and passed to me :oops: I think we sort of got there that the Luggage is a bloke (well I did anyway...) :oops:

Although it would be interesting to find out about how sapient pearwood reproduces, but I guess that's pushing it too much :twisted:
Don't blame me! It was BB Shrooms wot done it! He said the luggage was female. 8)
 

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