SPOILERS Discussion of Good Omens, the series

[=Tamar]

I agree. Since I rarely bother to make detailed comparisons among the versions, when I do it's not too hard to type out Novel-x, Script-x, Series-x, and if I ever find a copy of it, Musical-x (the Good Omens musical is a real thing). (I use hyphens because it's extra motion to type the ! that many people online use to specify e.g. Novel!Aziraphale.) I do use "Novel" rather than "Book" because Agnes's Book is referred to as such and that complicates things.

The use of "pTerry" goes back to probably about a week after Pyramids was released.

 

[Molokov]

Good Omens musical is still in development: https://www.goodomensthemusical.com/
Being developed by a team in regional NSW, they held a work-in-progress version last year which several of the Sydney fans went to see. I, unfortunately, have not seen or heard any of it, but perhaps we'll hear more over the next few years.

 

[RathDarkblade]

The use of "pTerry" goes back to probably about a week after Pyramids was released.

It sounds like there's a story behind it. Is there? Or did someone simply think of "pTerry", and the nickname stuck?

Personally, "pTerry" always reminded me of the word "pterodactyl", but I assume that's not the real reason. Besides, it sounds too silly.

 

[Dotsie]

Pteppic and Ptraci!

 

[=Tamar]

It's from Pyramids. There is a major character named "Ptraci". The initial letter "P" is silent, as it is (more or less) in the name of the Egyptian god Ptah. (Try it both ways. It's a very subtle difference.) People on alt.fan.pratchett began referring to "Pterry", but since that decapitalized his first name, some of us began to use "pTerry". It was not standardized.

Edit: How did I forget that Teppic's name is properly spelled Pteppic?

 

[=Tamar]

In Novel-Omens, Aziraphale's conversation with the Metatron is pretty similar to the one in Series-Omens, but when he discorporates, he doesn't go to Heaven. instead, he just bounces around the planet looking for a body he can inhabit that is in England.There's no explanation for why the summoning circle only discorporated him instead of sending him directly to destination. The parallel scene with Crowley zooming through the phone lines is controlled by Crowley's having phoned himself on his other line (the one with the answering machine). Possibly the direct line to Heaven is controlled by the will of the angel involved. It would be fun to think that Aziraphale's personal idea of Heaven is Earth, but that doesn't really work at that point in the novel. I think this was one of the plotholes that are cheerfully ignored in the novel and that Neil Gaiman fixed, having had 27 years to think about it (2 years to write the Script and make the Series).

 

[Molokov]

The script book does include the scene where Aziraphale inhabits the body of an evangelical TV minister (as per one of several such small scenes in the novel), but I'm not sure if it was even filmed - it didn't make the final cut of the TV show, however.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Yes, I remember the Aziraphale-possesses-evangelical-minister scene in the Omens-Book (despite not having read the book for a long, long time). Doesn't Aziraphale cheerfully contradict everything the evangelist says? "Don't send money, the earth is doomed" - something like that?

I suppose that scene didn't make the final cut because the premiere would have been on Amazon Prime in the USA, where it may have been considered controversial. (Note the words "suppose" and "may have been"; obviously, I don't know for sure).

 

[=Tamar]

According to Neil Gaiman, it was the very last scene they cut, and it was for lack of money. He didn't say anything about how much it cost to repair the Bentley after the stunt driver damaged it, but I wonder. They had actors cast for it and everything.

 

[=Tamar]

Something I just noticed within the last hour: A gifset of Crowley taking his glasses off and sitting on the couch, in the drunk scene in the bookshop, shows something weird that is not explained anywhere.
Behind him, there are lots of fine old books, with some other books lying flat on top of the upright ones. A small stack of flat-positioned books MOVES AWAY as he is sitting down. It's the top one in the gifset.

Crowley sits on couch

 

[Penfold]

I see what you mean but it looks, on close inspection, that it's a small stack behind the bookcase seen through a gap with the angle looking like they are sitting on top of the other books in the shelf. As the camera angle changes, it gives the perception of the books moving in relation to the foreground. (Not had my first cup of coffee yet so I hope this makes sense.)

 

[Dotsie]

Agreed, it’s not behind him, but behind the bookshelf, seen through a gap.

 

[=Tamar]

Thanks. I can see that now. I'd forgotten those bookcases weren't against a solid wall.

 

[=Tamar]

Tonight I watched a video about the Byward Angel, part of a painting in the Byward Tower part of the Tower of London, painted in the 14th century. That tower was used as the Royal Mint. Although the painting was originally of figures surrounding the crucifixion, the central part was obliterated when a large fireplace was built in. All that is left of the center is part of a huge Tudor Rose.

To the right of the fireplace is the figure of the Archangel Michael, holding a set of golden scales, in which he is weighing souls. The scale pan to the viewer's right has been damaged, but the one to the viewer's left is grasped by two demons, who are trying to influence the weighing. That particular image, of unsympathetic beings trying to alter the soul-balance for the worse, appears in ancient Egyptian art and, if I recall correctly, also in ancient Sumerian art.

It does help to explain why Michael in Good Omens is so judgemental. Although the scales are not shown in the series, they also could link Michael to Famine, whose symbol is the scales used to weigh out food in time of famine. If series-Michael's main job is to enforce rules, it is even more scandalous that they appear to make regular phone calls to Ligur, although it does seem appropriate that Michael is the one to bring the means of execution to Hell.

The Byward Angel

 

[RathDarkblade]

Fantastic little video! Thanks for sharing. I was in the Tower twice two years ago, and I never noticed the Byward Angel - but I guess it's off limits to the public? Too bad if it is. What I wouldn't give to see it - an original 14th-century wall painting! I've seen the Mint in the Tower and the records in the Jewel Tower, but no paintings like this. Wow.

Yes, you're right about Michael and the scales. If memory serves, in Egyptian mythology, Anubis weighed your heart against the feather of Ma'at. Ma'at, the goddess of order, truth, and righteousness, sat on top of the scales to make sure that the weighing was carried out properly. If you did good deeds in life, your heart would be very light (don't ask me how they figured this out), and you could go on to Aaru (the Field of Reeds, a paradise where Osiris rules). If your heart was unworthy, meaning that you were a liar or a sinner, your heart was devoured by the goddess Ammit, and you would be condemned to remain in the Duat (Egyptian underworld).

Why was this bad? Well, the Duat - along with having many normal features like rivers, islands, fields and so on - also had fantastic lakes of fire, walls of iron and trees of turquoise. In the mounds and caverns were minor gods, demons or supernatural animals, which threatened the deceased along their journey. If the deceased could not go on to Aaru, these minor gods/demons would eat him. Those Egyptians didn't mess around. One strike and you're out!

I'm not sure what happens in Sumerian religion, though, or how it relates to the Egyptian one.

 

[=Tamar]

It's been a while since I read the stack of books on Sumerian religion, and no doubt more has been discovered since then. I recall that they had a similar trial setup in the afterlife, with a poem (?) known as the Negative Confession, where the soul lists all the sins they have not committed.

 

[Dotsie]

Sounds reasonable, and definitely a lot quicker

 

[=Tamar]

There's been some talk about how Aziraphale breaks most of the ten commandments and commits most if not all of the seven deadly sins.

 

[RathDarkblade]

Eh? I don't remember him doing anything of the kind ... maybe I wasn't paying attention.

For instance, Aziraphale certainly doesn't break the "Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother" commandment, since he has no parents. He doesn't covet his neighbour's wife or goods, and he doesn't kill or steal. (All right, he keeps Anathema's book, but he certainly doesn't steal it - she loses it).

And then there's the "Honor the Sabbath Day to Keep it Holy" business. We never see him breaking that one, so I wouldn't point any fingers. So which ones does he break, exactly?

As for the seven deadly sins ... which ones does he commit, really? Greed? No; the only thing Aziraphale is "greedy" for, perhaps, is old books - and that's not really greedy. Sloth? Hardly; he works very hard. He's not particularly proud, he never displays any lust or envy - or, for that matter, wrath. Possibly his only downfall is gluttony, although he never eats to excess; he only drinks to excess, and that was only once (and with Crowley, no less).

Besides ... quoting from wikipedia: "The seven deadly sins, also known as the capital vices, or cardinal sins, is a grouping and classification of vices within Christian teachings." But Aziraphale was never Christian (or Jewish, or Muslim, or whatever. As an angel, he is above such petty things).

I think the people who accuse Aziraphale of these dreadful things should re-read Matthew, 7:5. "First, remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye."

 

[=Tamar]

Aziraphale lies to his Mother about his sword. Even if you consider that "somewhere around here" covers "somewhere on earth", he also calls himself a bookseller but he does everything possible to avoid actually selling a book - false witness. He was an angel "but he also worshiped books" - that's having another god. He covets Anathema's book; he also kept it for days while he read it, instead of either dropping it in the mail or miracling it back to her immediately. He trades off work with Crowley to make his job easier - sloth. He routinely gets rid of anyone who threatens his bookstore; nobody ever sees them again (and "nobody" includes everyone else on the planet). He is wrathful toward the angels who bullied him. He has regular manicures (or miracles it, which is the same result) - vanity. He steals Crowley's dessert. He miracles the mediocre wine at a restaurant into a better wine - that's a form of gluttony, and he is canonically plump; considering that he has no real need to eat, eating anything is gluttony. He is persuaded that he should murder a child - okay, it's the Antichrist, but Heaven more or less told him to keep hands off and let things happen, so that's disobedience as well.
On Sunday, in the Novel he is gleeful about the high prices he can charge for the first edition antique children's books that have appeared in his shop (greed, and on Sunday at that); in the Series, he and Crowley act a lie by exchanging places in order to get out of punishment for their behavior in thwarting the will of Heaven.

Yeah, he's plenty human even before he throws in his lot with a demon against both Heaven and Hell. It's even more specific in the Series: "whatever, happens, for good or evil".