Tonyblack said:
To be fair, I don't believe that UA IS about football. There's football in there, but it's not what the book is about. 
Haven't finished Snuff yet so I'll reserve judgement on that one.
Least favourite Discworld book
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Point taken - I guess I experience excitement when he starts writing about a subject I'm interested in... and I was disappointed in the way he treated football, not really sure why. Of course it may strike me differently next time I read it. Anyway I found it was a bit of a let-down compared to Night Watch, Going Postal, Thud! Making Money and Monstrous Regiment.
Haven't finished Snuff yet so I'll reserve judgement on that one.
Haven't finished Snuff yet so I'll reserve judgement on that one.
I've never read a PTerry book I didn't at least like. Even the worst of them, I enjoyed thoroughly and would read again and again.
That said, if there's one I have a more... complicated outlook upon than any other, it's Monstrous Regiment.
There's so much in it that I adore - Lofty and Tonker, Nuggan, Maladict's 'Nam flashbacks, all the things Pratchett says about war, about theocracy, about men and women, about socks... 99% of it is brilliant.
But there was one thing that disappointed me - finding out that
So because of that slight disappointment, if you put a gun to my head I'd say Monstrous Regiment was my least favourite Terry Pratchett book - but it doesn't feel right to call it that. I'd rather say that it was so good and talked about things that were so close to my heart that I had higher standards for it, or certain expectations that were not quite met.
As a side note, I loved UA. Absolutely loved it. I felt like it was a return to his "one shot" type stories. He's done rock music, films, newspapers - why not football? I loved his take on orcs too. I wouldn't put it in my top 10, but I felt it was on a par with Moving Pictures or Soul Music or Pyramids.
*edited to hide spoilers! Phew, that was close, I nearly forgot.
That said, if there's one I have a more... complicated outlook upon than any other, it's Monstrous Regiment.
There's so much in it that I adore - Lofty and Tonker, Nuggan, Maladict's 'Nam flashbacks, all the things Pratchett says about war, about theocracy, about men and women, about socks... 99% of it is brilliant.
But there was one thing that disappointed me - finding out that
Maladict was Maladicta. I can't really put my finger on why it bothered me. It's not that I ship Polly and Maladict; Maladict being female wouldn't stop me from shipping them anyway. I think I just didn't want to know. I wanted Maladict to be left ambiguous, androgynous, to never answer that question. I felt like a chance was missed, a chance to underline the point that a person's... socks, let's say, are not what defines them.
So because of that slight disappointment, if you put a gun to my head I'd say Monstrous Regiment was my least favourite Terry Pratchett book - but it doesn't feel right to call it that. I'd rather say that it was so good and talked about things that were so close to my heart that I had higher standards for it, or certain expectations that were not quite met.
As a side note, I loved UA. Absolutely loved it. I felt like it was a return to his "one shot" type stories. He's done rock music, films, newspapers - why not football? I loved his take on orcs too. I wouldn't put it in my top 10, but I felt it was on a par with Moving Pictures or Soul Music or Pyramids.
*edited to hide spoilers! Phew, that was close, I nearly forgot.
Great comments, II see your point about UA compared to Moving Pictures, Pyramids and Soul Music, especially MP and SM. He likes throwing the wizards in when he imports "cultural" stuff from our world like popular music, cinema, sport or fashion - despite being a bunch of old men they are also the eternal adolescents (just reading SM at the moment by the way - not too bad at all though a bit silly)! For me, where UA falls short compared to MP and SM is that it's too long and heavy for my taste. I love his ability to throw off a bit of light fluff like Moving Pictures or Soul Music while still developing his characters and the whole of Discworld in an interesting way.
In contrast, I loved Night Watch and feel that for me it's one of his very best because he got the mix of heaviness and lightness right, at least for my taste. The clash between light and darkness there justified some heaviness in the prose and plot, whereas I agree with you, the plot of UA is much lighter and for me the lightness of it got weighed down too much.
An interesting topic for discussion in future might be the "weightiness" of Discworld novels compared to the "weightiness" of the villains. The only real villains in UA I recall were the bovver boys who had it in for Trev and Nutt and I thought Nutt rather undermined their evil by beating them so easily at every turn.
I find it interesting how everyone has different favourites and least favourites too...
In contrast, I loved Night Watch and feel that for me it's one of his very best because he got the mix of heaviness and lightness right, at least for my taste. The clash between light and darkness there justified some heaviness in the prose and plot, whereas I agree with you, the plot of UA is much lighter and for me the lightness of it got weighed down too much.
An interesting topic for discussion in future might be the "weightiness" of Discworld novels compared to the "weightiness" of the villains. The only real villains in UA I recall were the bovver boys who had it in for Trev and Nutt and I thought Nutt rather undermined their evil by beating them so easily at every turn.
I find it interesting how everyone has different favourites and least favourites too...
I too found Equal Rites a bit dull compared to some of the others even though I thought it was a nice piece of writing too. If you enjoyed the first two books, you may find it interesting to read "Sourcery" as it brings Rincewind back and revisits a lot of the themes from TCOM, TLF and ER while, as always, also bringing in some fun new stuff including Arabian NIghts satire, the Apocralypse and two more "barbarians" (Cohen's daughter and Nijel the Destroyer).
Re:
I don't know what book you are reading, but it isn't Unseen Academicals.
After the orc ran away and then came back to the UU and they get 'greeted' by Ponder we learn that Ponder is pretty desperate, near panic and rather scatterbrained because he has been unable to train the team in the absence of the orc.
No we don't. We learn that Ponder is somewhat concerned (Rather than 'near panic') over reports in the press about Nutt being an Orc.
About two pages later (that's how worried he is) he says that he can't remember Nutt's training methods. If you had paid attention earlier in the book you might have noticed that Nutt's training methods are a little, well, unusual (Taking the team to the ballet, sending them to study hunting dogs, playing blindfold........ Little to do with the mechanics of actually playing football). No wonder Ponder couldn't remember it, especially as he delegated the training to Nutt, promptly forgot all about football and went back to running the University.
LilMaibe said:
Sorry to rant about UA again, but even though I am more or less at oeace with the book now (doesn't mean I like it all of a sudden) there remains one scene that makes me angry. And I mean angry.
After the orc ran away and then came back to the UU and they get 'greeted' by Ponder we learn that Ponder is pretty desperate, near panic and rather scatterbrained because he has been unable to train the team in the absence of the orc.
I could have understood if the reason would have been that he couldn't concentrate on it or didn't had the time because of all his jobs.
But no. The reason he couldn't train the team and had them 'running on the spot' was because he couldn't remember all the things the orc comes up with!
WHAT THE HELL
Suspension of disbelief only stretches so far and, sorry, but I am NOT buying that Ponder suddenly is that much of a complete moron who can't think for himself at even the most basic things.
Yes, Ponder is a very unathletic character, but, f*ck, that should NOT keep him, who has worked out the rules, who before was able to list what the wizards were doing wrong at their play from f*cking coming up with basic training methods like passing the ball, running with the ball, goalie-training etc.
I am just NOT buying that.
Not to mention WHAT THE HELL ELSE should it be the orc came up with?!
And not to mention Ponder has HEX, who could very well check the L-Space for training methods. Or he could ask the Librarian about that...or ...graaaaaah
That particular scene is...I don't know, but I f*cking hate it. I really, really hate it.
Sorry for ranting. But that scene is just.... It's like reading about... I don't know.... Vimes doing policework like Colon would do in his really worst moments. Or Granny suddenly acting like one of the young wanna-be witches without it being a razzle-dazzle....
After the orc ran away and then came back to the UU and they get 'greeted' by Ponder we learn that Ponder is pretty desperate, near panic and rather scatterbrained because he has been unable to train the team in the absence of the orc.
I could have understood if the reason would have been that he couldn't concentrate on it or didn't had the time because of all his jobs.
But no. The reason he couldn't train the team and had them 'running on the spot' was because he couldn't remember all the things the orc comes up with!
WHAT THE HELL
Suspension of disbelief only stretches so far and, sorry, but I am NOT buying that Ponder suddenly is that much of a complete moron who can't think for himself at even the most basic things.
Yes, Ponder is a very unathletic character, but, f*ck, that should NOT keep him, who has worked out the rules, who before was able to list what the wizards were doing wrong at their play from f*cking coming up with basic training methods like passing the ball, running with the ball, goalie-training etc.
I am just NOT buying that.
Not to mention WHAT THE HELL ELSE should it be the orc came up with?!
And not to mention Ponder has HEX, who could very well check the L-Space for training methods. Or he could ask the Librarian about that...or ...graaaaaah
That particular scene is...I don't know, but I f*cking hate it. I really, really hate it.
Sorry for ranting. But that scene is just.... It's like reading about... I don't know.... Vimes doing policework like Colon would do in his really worst moments. Or Granny suddenly acting like one of the young wanna-be witches without it being a razzle-dazzle....
After the orc ran away and then came back to the UU and they get 'greeted' by Ponder we learn that Ponder is pretty desperate, near panic and rather scatterbrained because he has been unable to train the team in the absence of the orc.
No we don't. We learn that Ponder is somewhat concerned (Rather than 'near panic') over reports in the press about Nutt being an Orc.
About two pages later (that's how worried he is) he says that he can't remember Nutt's training methods. If you had paid attention earlier in the book you might have noticed that Nutt's training methods are a little, well, unusual (Taking the team to the ballet, sending them to study hunting dogs, playing blindfold........ Little to do with the mechanics of actually playing football). No wonder Ponder couldn't remember it, especially as he delegated the training to Nutt, promptly forgot all about football and went back to running the University.
