The City Watch books

[raisindot]

Hi, Beyond, and welcome!

Your observations are very astute. I started my whole DW adventure with "The Fifth Elephant" and then went backwards. The Vimes and Carrot of the later books is almost unrecognizable from the Vimes of Guards, Guards.

I agree with what most people say in that AM has become more sophisticated because Pterry's evolution as a writer went from essentially trying to be the Doug Adams of fantasy, emphasizing, at first, how clever he was with all the jokes and parody elements and roundworld cultural references to someone who really digs deep into the psyches of his main characters and the histories and socioeconomics (there, I've said it) of the places he creates, particularly Ankh Morpork.

I'd recommend you finish up the rest of the Guards series in order, rather than move around. This will give you a much better sense of how Vimes and the Watch evolved over time. You really don't need to need to read the rest of the other 'series' to finish up the Guards; it works by itself, although you may want to read "The Truth," since, although not technically a "Guards" book, Vimes features prominently in it.

Enjoy!

J-I-B

 

[pip]

Hi, Beyond, and welcome!

Your observations are very astute. I started my whole DW adventure with "The Fifth Elephant" and then went backwards. The Vimes and Carrot of the later books is almost unrecognizable from the Vimes of Guards, Guards.

I agree with what most people say in that AM has become more sophisticated because Pterry's evolution as a writer went from essentially trying to be the Doug Adams of fantasy, emphasizing, at first, how clever he was with all the jokes and parody elements and roundworld cultural references to someone who really digs deep into the psyches of his main characters and the histories and socioeconomics (there, I've said it) of the places he creates, particularly Ankh Morpork.

I'd recommend you finish up the rest of the Guards series in order, rather than move around. This will give you a much better sense of how Vimes and the Watch evolved over time. You really don't need to need to read the rest of the other 'series' to finish up the Guards; it works by itself, although you may want to read "The Truth," since, although not technically a "Guards" book, Vimes features prominently in it.

Enjoy!

J-I-B

Monstrous Regiment, Like The Truth has a big input from Vimes and is worth including as well.

 

[deldaisy]

WOW! I didn't like those cartoon covers at all
And the turtle flying through space for Guards! Guards! ???
Loved the image of the tower of UU...but for Men At Arms ???
I don't usually have favourite anythings but I must admit I do love the cover for "Nightwatch" with the Rembrandt on the back... now that was clever! I searched for years for my own copy of that one after reading it the first time from the library and through a wonderful pice of serendipity finally got it. I will frame it.

Thanks for that Tony

 

[raisindot]

WOW! I didn't like those cartoon covers at all
And the turtle flying through space for Guards! Guards! ???
Loved the image of the tower of UU...but for Men At Arms ???

Are you referring to the Josh Kirby paperback covers in the British books?

Frankly, I much prefer them to them to the U.S. covers, which I absolutely despise. There's so little thought going into them I just want to--well, just want to.

Hated the U.S. covers so much I spent a small fortune buying all of the UK paperbacks with Kirby covers from Brits on Ebay.

Funny though. I once went to a Pterry appearance in Boston and presented him with one of the Kirby paperbacks to sign. He took a look, shook his head, and said, "Ahhh, a Kirby cover." Didn't seem like he was all too much of a fan of them.

J-I-B

 

[Tonyblack]

WOW! I didn't like those cartoon covers at all
And the turtle flying through space for Guards! Guards! ???
Loved the image of the tower of UU...but for Men At Arms ???

Are you referring to the Josh Kirby paperback covers in the British books?

Frankly, I much prefer them to them to the U.S. covers, which I absolutely despise. There's so little thought going into them I just want to--well, just want to.

Hated the U.S. covers so much I spent a small fortune buying all of the UK paperbacks with Kirby covers from Brits on Ebay.

Funny though. I once went to a Pterry appearance in Boston and presented him with one of the Kirby paperbacks to sign. He took a look, shook his head, and said, "Ahhh, a Kirby cover." Didn't seem like he was all too much of a fan of them.

J-I-B

I think deldaisy is referring to the covers in the link to the quiz I posted.

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

WOW! I didn't like those cartoon covers at all
And the turtle flying through space for Guards! Guards! ???
Loved the image of the tower of UU...but for Men At Arms ???

Are you referring to the Josh Kirby paperback covers in the British books?

Frankly, I much prefer them to them to the U.S. covers, which I absolutely despise. There's so little thought going into them I just want to--well, just want to.

Hated the U.S. covers so much I spent a small fortune buying all of the UK paperbacks with Kirby covers from Brits on Ebay.

Funny though. I once went to a Pterry appearance in Boston and presented him with one of the Kirby paperbacks to sign. He took a look, shook his head, and said, "Ahhh, a Kirby cover." Didn't seem like he was all too much of a fan of them.

J-I-B

Was that in 2004 at the Boston WorldCon, as far as I know Terry is a fan of Josh's artwork, maybe he was surprised at you having a UK one.

 

[Jan Van Quirm]

Are you referring to the Josh Kirby paperback covers in the British books?

Frankly, I much prefer them to them to the U.S. covers, which I absolutely despise. There's so little thought going into them I just want to--well, just want to.

Hated the U.S. covers so much I spent a small fortune buying all of the UK paperbacks with Kirby covers from Brits on Ebay.

Funny though. I once went to a Pterry appearance in Boston and presented him with one of the Kirby paperbacks to sign. He took a look, shook his head, and said, "Ahhh, a Kirby cover." Didn't seem like he was all too much of a fan of them.

J-I-B

Jeff - I think that shake of the head was probably one of fond regret and perhaps sorrow. Josh Kidby died in 2001 and his last Discworld covers were 5th Elephant and (I think) The Truth and Thief of Time (for the UK editions - Paul Kidby was brought in from Last Hero onwards). If FE was your first book then I would guess that you saw Terry not too long after Josh died.

I only invented the Discworld. Josh created it.

They didn't have the close working relationship that Terry has (or did have?) with Paul Kidby and from the start he and Josh were very much professionals who were both at the top of their game. I know some people won't agree but Josh's work on Discworld, right from the beginning summed up what Discworld was, or was going to be, all about, brash, chaotic, wild and fun. His covers for CoM and LF made me want to pick them up as soon as I saw them and the world, as they say, changed

Josh was a fantasy painter, first and last. Paul is a Portraitist/Illustrator. Paul's work is excellent, but it only goes so far, which is certainly far enough as the books are always all about the people. Josh's work went further and captured it all, including the spirit. That was why so many SF&F authors wanted him to do their covers...

If anyone hasn't already checked it out, I urge you to look at Josh's website - even though it's an annoying Flash site it shows what a truly exceptional artist he was.

 

[Beyond Birthday]

Since this has started an art discussion I should that this is the version of Thud! that I own.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/p/ter ... t/thud.htm

Nice, gaudy shade of blue there. No idea who did the art for this one. Not terrible, but like I said before it made me think that it would be all politics or anything else besides what it was about. The other cover, however...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thud!

MUCH better. At least you can guess what it's about without being completely wrong. You could easily see this being turned into a poster.

Since someone else would've said this anyway: don't judge a book by its cover...and don't use that shade of blue.

 

[Tonyblack]

That's the American copy that you have, with artwork by Scott McKowan.

 

[raisindot]

Beyond, I HATE that Thud cover. HATE IT! HATE IT! HATE IT! I hate looking at it as it sits on my bookshelf. Hate it!

What it represents is so completely opposite to what the book is about that I'd like to throttle the U.S. publisher who served as art director. I'm sure the thinking was, "No one going past the SF section of Borders will buy a book with a cover that looks like a chess game. But put a great big club in it about to hit someone's head and that'll appeal to those dumb, violence loving Yanks."

I'm sure the same thinking went into the cover for Unseen Academicals. I'm not a big fan of the UK cover, but it's heads and tails better than the stupid cover of the U.S. Edition with all the hands going for the football.

The only U.S. cover I've ever liked is the one for Night Watch.

J-I-B

 

[Beyond Birthday]

I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's to appeal to people who love violence. If that were true I think we'd see the club 'after' it hit someone. The US cover looks more like a sketch that the artist thought was a good idea at the time. I do think they might've dropped the original cover because of the chess thing though.

I assume you mean the yellow cover with Vimes going through the mirror? I like that one, too. It may be almost as vague as the one for Thud! but it gets you more interested in reading the plot description (and after that reading the book itself).

The US cover for Unseen Academicals is okay. It gets the job done better than the one for Thud! but there isn't anything special about it...wait, I think those two are by the same artist! What's with this guy and only drawing limbs?

 

[raisindot]

Jeff - I think that shake of the head was probably one of fond regret and perhaps sorrow. Josh Kidby died in 2001 and his last Discworld covers were 5th Elephant and (I think) The Truth and Thief of Time (for the UK editions - Paul Kidby was brought in from Last Hero onwards). If FE was your first book then I would guess that you saw Terry not too long after Josh died.

Nope. I believe that it was either right after the publication of Monstrous Regiment or Going Postal, so that's either 2003 or 2004. And his reaction was not one of fond regret or sorrow. It was one of mild embarrassment, like "Oh jees, now they've got Kirbys this side of the Pond." I felt embarrassed that I had presented this one to him, but I also got him to sign my U.S. hardcover of Thief of Time.

J-I-B

 

[Willem]

I'm a big fan of the Kirby covers, like Jan said, they drew me in.

Although the CoM cover had me imagining Twoflower with 4 eyes from the start, the glasses-joke had to be pointed out to me later

I've got one US paperback (Guards Guards) which sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[The Mad Collector]

I like the Kirby covers and have a couple of the signed limited edition print versions done not long before he died. I'd like to get the other 2 but they seem about as easy to find as rocking horse droppings..

 

[poohcarrot]

Although the CoM cover had me imagining Twoflower with 4 eyes from the start, the glasses-joke had to be pointed out to me later

Light Fantastic.

 

[ghostsecurity28]

Re: Hi

All the watch books are ruddy good and Guards Guards stood out as one of my personal bests.
You get to meet my all time fave character too (Errol the swamp dragon)

I love the watch series I sadly have reached the end nearly !! only got the tiffany series to read I left them alone as it stated for younger readers, I really need another fix of the city watch desperately

 

[Tonyblack]

Re: Hi

All the watch books are ruddy good and Guards Guards stood out as one of my personal bests.
You get to meet my all time fave character too (Errol the swamp dragon)

I love the watch series I sadly have reached the end nearly !! only got the tiffany series to read I left them alone as it stated for younger readers, I really need another fix of the city watch desperately

Well read them again. You won't be disappointed. Terry's books are always rereadable.

 

[pip]

Re: Hi

All the watch books are ruddy good and Guards Guards stood out as one of my personal bests.
You get to meet my all time fave character too (Errol the swamp dragon)

I love the watch series I sadly have reached the end nearly !! only got the tiffany series to read I left them alone as it stated for younger readers, I really need another fix of the city watch desperately

Well read them again. You won't be disappointed. Terry's books are always rereadable.

Exactly.

Its amazing the extra bits you notice second time round.

 

[Penfold]

Re: Hi

I love the watch series I sadly have reached the end nearly !! only got the tiffany series to read I left them alone as it stated for younger readers, I really need another fix of the city watch desperately

I think that you will be pleasantly surprised by these. Although they are advertised for the 'younger readers', Sir Terry manages to write and treat this audience with a maturity and intelligence that belies this statement. I would go as far as saying that ISWM has some darker, more sinister, and deeper elements than some of his books intended for an adult audience. They are also very, very funny.

 

[deldaisy]

WOW! I didn't like those cartoon covers at all
And the turtle flying through space for Guards! Guards! ???
Loved the image of the tower of UU...but for Men At Arms ???

Are you referring to the Josh Kirby paperback covers in the British books?

Frankly, I much prefer them to them to the U.S. covers, which I absolutely despise. There's so little thought going into them I just want to--well, just want to.

Hated the U.S. covers so much I spent a small fortune buying all of the UK paperbacks with Kirby covers from Brits on Ebay.

Funny though. I once went to a Pterry appearance in Boston and presented him with one of the Kirby paperbacks to sign. He took a look, shook his head, and said, "Ahhh, a Kirby cover." Didn't seem like he was all too much of a fan of them.

J-I-B

Yes I was referring to the covers Tony put on a link for me. I have always liked "English" covers (and as I said especially the Nightwatch cover) I hated the simplified cartoon type covers in the link. If I didn't know the author I wouldn't have picked them up.

Josh died? I never knew. Thanks for the post Jan.

And as for rereading books..... NOT for me. Not even the classics. Until I read Pratchett, because you DO get other things out of them the second time around; or the third. There is only ONE other book I have read three times and it was SUCH a slog to get through the first 100 pages. (and I don't DO slog... you shouldn't have to torture yourself to read a book, even classics). That book is Independant People by Halldor Laxness (Iceland). You think YOU are impressed with Terry. People would fly to Iceland and walk over mountains to meet this man. It won the Nobel Prize for Literature. It is a book about sheep. It has been under my skin since I read it so many years ago and still is. It has been beside my bed since I read it. One day I will tell you about it.