SPOILERS Unseen Academicals ***SPOILERS***

[Anonymous]

I am not saying you're wrong. It WOULD fit Vetinari to know about a possible discovery of the rules months before the story and then had people hush it up till the right moment.
And yes, Sir Terry doesn't say things straight out, but he tends to give clearer hints to what is meant.
If you read it like that, I'm fine with that.
I am just saying there are many things that don't fit. Starting from the curious discovery of the urn somewhere in the back of the museum, the goddess appearing there, the whole idea about Pedestrina, how she/football mess with people's minds and behaviour (beyond the general craziness of football fans) and so on.
To me it just doesn't fit with 'Vetinari wrote those rules'
Not to mention, again, that that would only lead to more questions about the story in general.

 

[high eight]

As Tony said, this doesn't fit in with your world-view so you'll probably ignore it, but I'll fall in anyway.........

"According to the accompanying story, someone at the Royal Art Museum had found the urn in a storeroom and it contained scrolls which, it said here, had the original rules of foot-the-ball laid down in the early years of the century of the Summer Weevil, a thousand years ago, when the game was played in honour of the Goddess Pedestriana"

The 'it says here' is a clear implication that the story is made up - and that is the best you're going to get from Terry. It is called subtlety. The urn wasn't "discovered in the back of the museum". Vetinari had it put there.

As for Pedestrina - well, it has long been established that Discworld Gods (even made-up Gods. It's the belief that counts) are as powerful as the belief in them and narratvium was bound to make sure that she would put in an appearance at some point.

She mainly exists to be a joke about the old Jules Rimet Trophy anyway: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Jules_rimet.jpg/220px-Jules_rimet.jpg- .

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, that's why the entire starting scene was about the discovery of the urn and that guy seeing that goddess.
Not to mention Pedestrina messes with people's heads before the article.
And not to mention that if people would have suddenly believed in her, they would have connected her with the brutal kind of football.

H8, give me one reason why you think I'm a retard.

 

[high eight]

Yeah, that's why the entire starting scene was about the discovery of the urn and that guy seeing that goddess.
Not to mention Pedestrina messes with people's heads before the article.
And not to mention that if people would have suddenly believed in her, they would have connected her with the brutal kind of football.

H8, give me one reason why you think I'm a retard.

the entire starting scene was about the discovery of the urn

Doesn't mean that Vetinari didn't have it put there

Pedestrina messes with people's heads before the article.

But only in a small way - she is a small god.

if people would have suddenly believed in her, they would have connected her with the brutal kind of football.

No - because her main manifestation was at the new-style match.

H8, give me one reason why you think I'm a retard.

Just one? OK - your childish insistence on calling Mr Nutt 'the orc'.

 

[Anonymous]

So, let me get this straight:
To you I am an utter retard because I don't like what happened to a series of novels I adore and which mainly influenced my writing and what I know about how to write a good story, and because I refuse to see things through pink-tinted glasses?

 

[raisindot]

Heeeeerrrree we go again.....

 

[high eight]

Well, that's your version of just one of my reasons. I have others.

Let's just say I don't like you. Live with it.

 

[Sister Jennifer]

Re:

On a sidenote on the orc thingy:

Aside from orcs not having an actual background before in DW, Nutt is utterly unimpressive as by now (some of) the readers likely grew too familiar with the Warcraft orcs. Therefore the whole -omfg he's an orc- just gets a bored -so what- out of many as the 'they're not all evil and dumb, can actually be good
, big hearted and kind and intelligent' theme is already there pretty clearly in the heads of people, as The Warcraft orcs more or less taken the place of the warhammer or even LotR orcs in people's heads.

I don't think they have Warcraft or Tolkien on Discworld do they? Which is probably more THE point regarding the 'omfg he's an orc' attitude of the characters in the book that we, the readers, are reading about.

I didn't get bored with it. What is the problem with the orcs not having a backgound on DW? That's like saying, the Post Office didn't have much of a background before Going Postal. It's a new novel. I found Mr Nutt and the story of the orcs incredibly interesting.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, to me it possibly was because I knew his story before from warcraft (only that it's told better there, as Thrall is nowhere near as perfect. Seriously, go and give 'Lord of the Clans' a read )

 

[raptornx01]

yeah, like how Gollems have always been around, but weren't "always around" before Feet Of Clay. or how they would always stop what they were doing to fight a fire, but yet didn't in jingo, or in color of magic, or in which ever book it was that the fools guild caught fire.

not to mention gnulls and goblins appearing out of no where, but had "been around" the whole time. :|

 

[Tonyblack]

It's not real! :doh:

Terry didn't write Colour of Magic and think: I'd better put a few golems in this otherwise people might wonder where they were after I've written about them twenty or so books down the line.

I know that it's the "fan" thing to do, pointing out how such and such doesn't work, because book three (for example) says something that would make it impossible. I've seen the adult nerds on The Simpsons picking out plot flaws in Itchy and Scratchy (have you all seen that episode?) - but it gets tiresome to read that people expect Terry's world to be perfect and make perfect sense.

Don't take it so seriously. Discworld and its characters are a plot device that allows Terry Pratchett to explore other issues. He didn't plot the 30th book when he wrote the first one. There are incongruities - get over it! :naughty:

 

[Bouncy Castle]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[high eight]

It's not real! :doh:

Terry didn't write Colour of Magic and think: I'd better put a few golems in this otherwise people might wonder where they were after I've written about them twenty or so books down the line.

I know that it's the "fan" thing to do, pointing out how such and such doesn't work, because book three (for example) says something that would make it impossible. I've seen the adult nerds on The Simpsons picking out plot flaws in Itchy and Scratchy (have you all seen that episode?) - but it gets tiresome to read that people expect Terry's world to be perfect and make perfect sense.

Don't take it so seriously. Discworld and its characters are a plot device that allows Terry Pratchett to explore other issues. He didn't plot the 30th book when he wrote the first one. There are incongruities - get over it! :naughty:

Hear, hear! :dance: PTerry is also very unlikely to say "oh, Warcraft and Fred Bloggs' fan fiction already have warm and fuzzy orcs, that's buggered up the plot of my next book, I'd better do aeroplanes instead."

 

[Anonymous]

It's not real! :doh:

Terry didn't write Colour of Magic and think: I'd better put a few golems in this otherwise people might wonder where they were after I've written about them twenty or so books down the line.

I know that it's the "fan" thing to do, pointing out how such and such doesn't work, because book three (for example) says something that would make it impossible. I've seen the adult nerds on The Simpsons picking out plot flaws in Itchy and Scratchy (have you all seen that episode?) - but it gets tiresome to read that people expect Terry's world to be perfect and make perfect sense.

Don't take it so seriously. Discworld and its characters are a plot device that allows Terry Pratchett to explore other issues. He didn't plot the 30th book when he wrote the first one. There are incongruities - get over it! :naughty:

But amazingly those books before Nightwatch fit together neatly. Granted, you need a bit of imagination and the will and skill to think beyond the written text, but before Nightwatch there actually had been no need to 'excuse' minor bits with a 'fuzzy timeline'
And did you really just try to compare Discworld to Simpsons?

 

[Tonyblack]

And did you really just try to compare Discworld to Simpsons?

Certainly! The Simpsons, at its very best is satire. It doesn't matter that there are plot holes everywhere, the characters in Springfield are used to explore other things in much the same way that Terry uses Discworld.

The same goes for Star Trek - and I could spend days picking holes in the Star Trek universe if I thought it was important.

 

[Anonymous]

But, I said it before, what made Discworld so awesome (at least to me) was that it was one of the semi-satire-serieses that had consistent character instead of mere tools. Simpsons & Co have basic roles which will get adjusted to the 'story' they want to tell. With Discworld, and sorry I repeat myself here again, you had stories adjusting to the characters.
That's rare in fiction nowadays. There are only few authors out there that actually manage to keep their characters that consistent for such a long while instead of having them do 180° turns out of nowhere to have a scene/joke/moral dialogue/etc work.

 

[raisindot]

I've seen the adult nerds on The Simpsons picking out plot flaws in Itchy and Scratchy (have you all seen that episode?)

Fun fact:

The Simpsons was the first show to have a significant base of anally retentive Internet fanboys deconstruct every single episode and point out flaws in real time after each was broadcast. The Simpsons writers made fun of the fanboys by personnifying them in the character of Comic Book Man, who both uttered the group's now-familiar meme, WORST. EPISODE. EVER., and once wore it on his tent-sized T-shirt.

 

[raptornx01]

but before Nightwatch there actually had been no need to 'excuse' minor bits with a 'fuzzy timeline'

coughsmallgodscough

BTW, Tony, i could care less about those flaws, I was merely pointing out they did exist before the "evil period" started.

Edit: oh, and i find it ironic that Nutt also doesn't like scatological references.

 

[Anonymous]

Omnia is near Djelybebi (sp?). You can blame the pyramids.

And yes, I know he does. Doesn't help things the slightest, though, as in his case it's to underline even more how oh-so-sophisticated he is. I'm just plainly annoyed by them.

 

[raptornx01]

But there has never been any debate, that i'm aware of, of when Pyramids takes place. I've certainly never heard the consideration that the time slowing effects of the pryamids could effect anything outside of the structures themselves. let alone a whole other country.