Mark Reads Discworld

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=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
12,911
2,900
It's not complete, of course. Time erodes all, even archives. I noticed that there are more translations into Japanese than other Asian languages, though if all eight of the Watch novels that were planned are actually produced in Taiwan then Chinese will be in the lead. There seems to be a preference for the YA novels (Maurice and Tiffany) and some of them had very cautiously small print runs. Most of the data is from 2008; I have no idea how one would check for current figures.
 

The Mad Collector

Sergeant-at-Arms
Sep 1, 2010
9,918
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Ironbridge UK
www.bearsonthesquare.com
I saw some of Terry's books in Vietnamese when I was there in 2008 but these don't appear to be 'official translations'. I wish I had know they were dodgy versions at the time as I might have bought one or two as examples for Colin. They were quite near the front of the shop so probably reasonably good sellers.
 

=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
12,911
2,900
Thanks for the note about Vietnamese editions! I saw covers and records of a few in Korean as well, and Malaysian has been mentioned.
Is there a special thread on this site for information about translations into languages other than English?
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
30,966
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
=Tamar said:
Thanks for the note about Vietnamese editions! I saw covers and records of a few in Korean as well, and Malaysian has been mentioned.
Is there a special thread on this site for information about translations into languages other than English?
There's this one.
 

high eight

Lance-Corporal
Dec 28, 2009
398
2,275
67
The Back of Beyond
I don't know if anybody is still following this, but Mark hadn't been as dismissive of Interesting Times as we might have thought. He actually likes bits of it (the plotting and some of the characters).
 

=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
12,911
2,900
I think he's trying hard to find something to like. it does help that he tries. Still, every so often he gets upset about allusions to something that happens to be real. So far I have restrained myself from pointing it out, because it is his site, after all, and nobody is forcing me to be involved in it. I'm hanging on and waiting for the books that will probably be less disturbing to him. I'm hoping he'll like Maskerade.
 

high eight

Lance-Corporal
Dec 28, 2009
398
2,275
67
The Back of Beyond
=Tamar said:
I think he's trying hard to find something to like. it does help that he tries. Still, every so often he gets upset about allusions to something that happens to be real. So far I have restrained myself from pointing it out, because it is his site, after all, and nobody is forcing me to be involved in it. I'm hanging on and waiting for the books that will probably be less disturbing to him. I'm hoping he'll like Maskerade.
The jokes about people eating dogs. He gets very annoyed about that - though people in that part of the world DO eat dog.

He win't like the fat jokes in Maskerade (though, speaking as a large person myself, I think Terry got them about right).
 

=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
12,911
2,900
It's only been mentioned twice, yet someone referred to it as "continual harping on" the topic. (I've tried to think of something equivalent in the USA - the closest I've come is chitlins. Simply mentioning chitlins/chitterlings and pork rinds does not insult all Americans, even though I believe that most Americans don't knowingly eat them.) But as I said, it's not my site. His site, his rules.

I think Terry emphasized the fat descriptions - most of them aren't jokes - in Maskerade because he wanted to make it absolutely clear that this heroine was not to be drawn as the usual Barbie lookalike. One important theme of the book is how different the standards are for fat women and fat men, and how much harsher they are now than they used to be. The older prima donnas are large too, and at least one has a fairly common older-woman beard, and she's still singing starring roles, yet Agnes is put in the chorus and made to sing for Christine. Enrico Basilica is very fat and he is not denied a starring role. The more moderate commenters seem to have stood up well with regard to such things in the past so I have some hope for the M!M response.
 

high eight

Lance-Corporal
Dec 28, 2009
398
2,275
67
The Back of Beyond
=Tamar said:
I think Terry emphasized the fat descriptions - most of them aren't jokes - in Maskerade because he wanted to make it absolutely clear that this heroine was not to be drawn as the usual Barbie lookalike. One important theme of the book is how different the standards are for fat women and fat men, and how much harsher they are now than they used to be. The older prima donnas are large too, and at least one has a fairly common older-woman beard, and she's still singing starring roles, yet Agnes is put in the chorus and made to sing for Christine. Enrico Basilica is very fat and he is not denied a starring role. The more moderate commenters seem to have stood up well with regard to such things in the past so I have some hope for the M!M response.
Quite> Also, I think he wanted his smaller readers to at least have an idea of what it is like to actually BE fat. A lot of thin people mention it all the time, sometimes subtly behind your back and sometimes pointedly to your face.
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
30,966
3,650
Cardiff, Wales
I'm still watching and enjoying the videos. I read the posts he makes, but avoid the comments by others in the same way I've learned to ignore YouTube comments.. The odd thing is, I remember him actually saying in a previous video, that he purposely pretends to be offended by innocent comments in real life, just to make people feel uncomfortable. Whether he does that in his videos or not, I don't know - but he's not making any fans by constantly looking for offence in books that aren't really there.
 
Aug 1, 2015
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I'm grateful that he's making an effort to find things about the book that he likes, otherwise I'd be very very bored at this point! I think this is probably the most "problematic" Discworld book as a whole, so if he can make it through this I'm sure he'll be fine.
 

=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
12,911
2,900
I'm expecting him to have trouble with Jingo, The Last Continent, The Fifth Elephant, and Thud!, because I think he will keep trying to attach one-on-one labels from Roundworld to the various cultures. For the most part, Sir Terry satirized general types, not specific cultures. He also looked for at least three different examples of things in Roundworld before using them on the Disc.
 

=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
12,911
2,900
Sir Terry expected his audience to be able to perceive the satire without having it spelled out for them. I feel that Maskerade is obviously criticizing the double standard of body image; using opera is a really obvious way to show that, because historically opera singers have been praised for their size on the theory that larger bodies resonate more. It's very clear that Salzella's attitude (specifically sexist, too) is a new thing in Discworld opera. I'm hoping I'm wrong, but I expect some of the people who post on that site to miss it completely and complain that it isn't being "called out" even though it is objected to by Dr. Undershaft.
 

Tonyblack

Super Moderator
City Watch
Jul 25, 2008
30,966
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Cardiff, Wales
I agree - Maskerade is, at least in part, about the transition between the voice being the thing, to the looks of the person singing. It's also about the rise in popularity of musical theatre such as Phantom of the Opera, Cats, Les Mis etc. The body image of the woman is far more important in this case than the male. No one has a problem with Henry Slugg's body size - they'll even let him play romantic roles - but not Agnes. I'm not saying that opera singing is just about the voice - the singer has to be able to act as well and put feeling into the part they are singing. I have what I call my "Un Bel Di" test for female opera singers. I don't care what they look like, if they can manage to get the "right" feeling in Puccini's aria from Madame Butterfly, then that is good enough for me. This is why I love Maria Callas so much . . . but I digress.
 

=Tamar

Lieutenant
May 20, 2012
12,911
2,900
The same thing happened in rock music. I think it was partly the rise of MTV and VH1, during the 1980s, with the music videos. Suddenly not only did they have to look like models or hire actors to do visuals for the music videos, they also had to do gymnastics on stage. The band couldn't just wear nice clothes and sing and play well, it had to be a circus. David Bowie and Bon Jovi each separately used a flying rig during a show, and those things are dangerous. The judges assumed Susan Boyle wouldn't have any talent because she didn't look like a movie star. I think it would have been better if music had stayed on the radio. I wonder whether some of that was behind the writing of Maskerade.
 

RathDarkblade

Moderator
City Watch
Mar 24, 2015
17,229
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Melbourne, Victoria
Having performed in light opera for a number of years, I can confirm that Pterry's descriptions of what opera is like are very good - although we hardly ever see anyone drop like flies out of the flies! :laugh:

I loved Perdita's audition, and I almost died laughing when
she started impersonating Christine. "Kwesta?! Malydetta?!"
:laugh:

I have many favourite moments from this book, such as
the swan's death scene, Granny's scenes with Death, Mr Pounder's death scene,
and
any time that Mr Salzella talks to Mr Bucket.
Oh! And I just loved
Granny's lunch with Salzella, Bucket, and Enrico Basilica...
culminating in
Nanny Ogg's "special" chocolate pudding!
:laugh:

Oh, and yes - Nobby Nobbs and Sgt Detritus's scene,
trying to be undercover
and sucking at it. :laugh:

Plus, the two scenes with Granny and Mr Goatberger... and Greebo
making his return as a human, re-enacting the chase scene from Phantom
... oh yes, and of course,
Salzella's final scene:

The villain is stabbed in a sword fight (actually, the sword is under his arm, but everyone's so wrapped up in the madness of opera that he dies anyway). He staggers to centre stage, delivers a long death soliloquy and dies. Then he gets back up to decry the opera some more, and dies. Then he gets back up again, and again, and AGAIN, reaches the five-exclamation-mark threshold of madness and declares:
"You know what really gets me down is the way everyone takes such a long!!!!! time!!!!! ... to!!!!! ... argh ... argh ... argh ..." *dies*
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I guess you can tell that Maskerade is one of my favourite books. :laugh:
 

Penfold

Sergeant-at-Arms
Dec 29, 2009
9,112
3,050
Worthing
www.lenbrookphotography.com
=Tamar said:
The same thing happened in rock music. I think it was partly the rise of MTV and VH1, during the 1980s, with the music videos. Suddenly not only did they have to look like models or hire actors to do visuals for the music videos, they also had to do gymnastics on stage. The band couldn't just wear nice clothes and sing and play well, it had to be a circus. David Bowie and Bon Jovi each separately used a flying rig during a show, and those things are dangerous. The judges assumed Susan Boyle wouldn't have any talent because she didn't look like a movie star. I think it would have been better if music had stayed on the radio. I wonder whether some of that was behind the writing of Maskerade.
This was a rather famous case in it's time where the vocals were sung by someone other than the person in the video because of the looks of the model and the real voice of the artiste.
https://youtu.be/M0quXl_od3g
 

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