So Which Discworld Characters Don't You Like?

[elisabel]

I hope this isn't too extreme thread necromancy for this forum . . .

I found Rincewind's books (I read COM, TLF, however you abbreviate Sourcery, and IT) boring and dismal. Yes, he occasionally did decent things, or even heroic, but that's what jerk coward protagonists in fiction DO. It didn't surprise me or engage me - I felt the same jadedness that at least the first two books seemed to be written with.

As for Carrot - I have two nicknames for him. "Original Carrot" for the guy he was through G!G! and the first part of MAA, and "Creepy Carrot" for the endgame of MAA onwards.

I'm a relatively new (or at least slow and money-lacking) Discworld reader, so I haven't yet encountered any of the Witches' books or Moist (van or von?) Lipwig's, and can't hate anyone from them. [EDIT: Not that I entirely hate Rincewind, and not that my hatred of Carrot was unintentional on Pratchett's part.]

 

[Tonyblack]

Welcome to the site, elisabel! We never have a problem with thread revival here. It sounds like you have a lot of great books to look forward to.

 

[eternalmetal]

Seems like I encounter a lot of people who don't like Rincewind. Which is strange to me, since ive always appreciated the comic relief he adds to any story in which he is the protagonist. The "oh no, here we go again" attitude of his almost never fails to bring a grin to my face. And while being inept, he invariably bumbles his way out (or is it just his mastery of running away?) of even the most imminent of situations. I can see why people may not like him because of his blatantly unapologetic cowardice, but it isnt like he doesnt have some sort of moral obligation to see problems to their resolution. He basically sees the insane and wacky things that happen in the Discworld for what they are, which are quite often situations that are way over his head and ones that any sane person would want to escape from (and through continued exposure to such fantastic events comes his apathy towards them).

As for characters I dont like? Mort and Ginger from MP come to mind. I just found Mort to be a little too awkward and unfriendly in a way that I just didnt enjoy. Pratchett did well in creating an awkward adolescent character who is trying to come of age, but I just found his personality to be a bit off for my taste. And Ginger from MP just because of her undeserved haughtiness (fits in with the whole Hollywood diva image though).

Even when you dont like characters that Pratchett makes up, you still find yourself appreciating them for what they are. Basically, this:

... they are all multifaceted and one single interpretation of them is never valid. I’m the first one to always vindicate that there’s no accounting for taste, but I believe every character has its merit, depth and reason for being, even the ones that may sometimes look like cardboards.

Mx

 

[raisindot]

I think the problem with Rincewind is that he's essentially the Arthur Dent of these books. I do believe the Pterry created the DW series to be the fantasy parody equivalent of the Hitchhiker's series (the Adams influences are legion in the first two DW books). Rincewind, like Dent, is essentially a straight man character--the "humor" in the books comes through his (their) interactions with other characters. Rincewind ends up being a one-note character who never develops, and most of the books in which he's featured follow a tired formula of "Rincewind goes somewhere exotic, meets characters that parody fantasy fiction cliches, Australians, The Mikado, Dante's Inferno, etc. and runs away. Wash, rinse, repeat. As his literary prowess grew and he developed far more interesting characters and narratives, Pterry realized Rincewind was a dead-end after awhile and finally gave up on him as a main character.

 

[Tonyblack]

Welcome to the site!

I think the problem with Rincewind is that he seems a bit like a cartoon character in what is increasingly becoming a real world. He fits the anarchy of the first few books, but not so much the later books. However, Rincewind is a great plot device, that allows Terry to explore parts of the Disc that would be a lot more difficult for someone like Sam Vimes, for example. Exploring Fourex or the Ageatan Empire and the chaos going on in those places, is a perfect place to use Rincewind - who seems to be indestructible.

 

[Tonyblack]

Crosspost with raisindot.

 

[Penfold]

You didn't sound cross to me, Tony, and there was no evidence of your Big Green Pen being brandished.

 

[Tonyblack]

 

[=Tamar]

Except Rincewind does develop. Not a lot, but he develops in one significant way. He realizes in TLC that he has a destiny, and that when he tries to avoid it, it comes back on him even harder. So he learns to go with it, complaining all the while. This shows up more in the Science of Discworld books, and in TLH, when he shows up to register his official complaint because he knows absolutely that he will be on the ship somehow. He has decided not to fight it, but he wants it known that he objects. This is halfway to the "acceptance of your role in the universe" that is often touted in spiritual advice books. Rincewind does the famous "even if" response of the Brothers Karamazov: even if the gods have a good reason for what is happening, he has the independence to object and to say [whatever] is a bad thing.
He also has what I believe may be the longest brick joke in the series.

 

[RathDarkblade]

I quite like Rincewind. He strikes me as the Straight Man of the early novels - or the one who knows what's going to happen if some fantasy trope is allowed to take place, and tries to subvert it, only for it to come back and smack him in the face. This keeps on happening to him, and as a result, he has pretty much given up resisting by TLC (as Tamar pointed out).

I also like Rincewind because not liking him would be like kicking a puppy. Just think of where he is at the start of IT:

Spoiler

on a desert island, full of boredom, and about to be force-fed potatoes

- which, for Rincewind, is the idea of heaven. After being chased, dropped, etc. for four books straight, he finally gets some peace and quiet...

Spoiler

but not, as we know, for long.

...most of the books in which he's featured follow a tired formula of "Rincewind goes somewhere exotic, meets characters that parody fantasy fiction cliches, Australians, The Mikado, Dante's Inferno, etc...

The Mikado? I can see that Dante's Inferno (though much less horrific) happens in Eric, but where does The Mikado parody happen?

Interesting Times isn't really very much like The Mikado, except for the fact that the Agatean Empire is a little like Japan or China. Trust me - I've performed The Mikado twice, I know how it goes.

He also has what I believe may be the longest brick joke in the series.

And that is...?

 

[=Tamar]

In book two, The Light Fantastic (May 1986):

Rincewind:
"`Why does everyone look at me?' he said. `I don't know what it is, maybe it's a comet or something.'
`Will we all be burned up?' said Bethan.
`How should I know? I've never been hit by a comet before.'"

In book 23 1/2 (just before book 24, TFE), The Science of Discworld I (June 1999):
Rincewind is hit by a comet. Luckily, he's in a virtual reality suit.

Thirteen years and one month.

 

[eternalmetal]

Except Rincewind does develop. Not a lot, but he develops in one significant way. He realizes in TLC that he has a destiny, and that when he tries to avoid it, it comes back on him even harder. So he learns to go with it, complaining all the while. This shows up more in the Science of Discworld books, and in TLH, when he shows up to register his official complaint because he knows absolutely that he will be on the ship somehow. He has decided not to fight it, but he wants it known that he objects. This is halfway to the "acceptance of your role in the universe" that is often touted in spiritual advice books. Rincewind does the famous "even if" response of the Brothers Karamazov: even if the gods have a good reason for what is happening, he has the independence to object and to say [whatever] is a bad thing.

I guess this is why some people have some opposition to Rincewind; he has already developed significantly because of unwritten reasons. His apathy toward life draws from his endless experience with danger and unfortunate situations, towards which he doesnt like, but accepts as inevitable. Despite what some people may want, he is no longer an adolescent character bursting full of potential; he is someone who has lived long enough to realize his potential, and deals with the idea that he isnt incredible and amazing. I feel like the only Discworld fan in the world who actually prefers Rincewind over Vimes by a significant margin. Some more exploration into the Octavo spells and perhaps a part 2 of Rincewind's life are among the things ive longed for most in the Discworld, but unfortunately this will never happen.

I quite like Rincewind. He strikes me as the Straight Man of the early novels - or the one who knows what's going to happen if some fantasy trope is allowed to take place, and tries to subvert it, only for it to come back and smack him in the face. This keeps on happening to him, and as a result, he has pretty much given up resisting by TLC (as Tamar pointed out).

This is one reason that I find him so entertaining. He realizes the tropes and despairs over them as they happen to him in humorous ways. It is his character as a vehicle towards what I find to be most entertaining in Pratchett's writing: actually making fun of fantasy tropes and stamping them into the ground.