The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please.

[feanor]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please

Ayup...

This may be in the wrong place, (for discussion anyhow) but does anyone think that Tiff's been portrayed a little... Plain in her looks on the cover ? now I dont mean to sound sexist, and I know she's not a Perditia or Annagramma and is the 'sensible' one, But the big 'cow eyes' she's been given really dont match what I have in my head. (she's somewhat prettier in mine) And her figure's a little 'woodentop' if you know what I mean... please dont jump on me as I appreciate the arguments about stereotyping etc etc.

 

[mirandashell]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown **Spoilers Allowed**

I loved that the fact that Granny's death was very nearly the first thing in the book. In fact I knew what was about to happen as soon as I saw the dedication.

Another thing that broke my heart was all the subplots that will now never be developed. Mrs Earwig, for example. Geoffrey and Mephistopheles The Baroness finally stepping up to be a witch. The two new girls...... :crying-yellow:

Never mind all the new plots Rob mentions in the Epilogue.

I have to admit that I opened it as soon as I got on the bus to go home from the bookshop at 4pm and didn't stop until it was done about 8pm. Then I laid my head on the book and had a really really good cry. And as I knew I would do that, I bought a cheap copy to read and kept the expensive limited-edition one in its bag.

And yes, I think PTerry did Granny Weatherwax proud.

 

[feanor]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown **Spoilers Allowed**

I had to make myself stop reading last night, otherwise I never would have gotten to sleep.

Hi Tony...

Me too. I stopped at page 156 in my 'ordinary' copy. But I've not long finished TSC, having resumed since my last post. I'm still mulling it all over. I'm just sad that there's 'no more' Granny. I was hoping that Rihanna Pratchett was going to allow some more leeway for others to write Discworld stories, but when I read her twitter comments, that was too much. Discworld's just too large still to leave. And there's still no follow up to Pyramids...

 

[The Mad Collector]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please

The book arrived this afternoon, I know what I'm doing this evening - see you all later

 

[Tonyblack]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please

Ayup...

This may be in the wrong place, (for discussion anyhow) but does anyone think that Tiff's been portrayed a little... Plain in her looks on the cover ? now I dont mean to sound sexist, and I know she's not a Perditia or Annagramma and is the 'sensible' one, But the big 'cow eyes' she's been given really dont match what I have in my head. (she's somewhat prettier in mine) And her figure's a little 'woodentop' if you know what I mean... please dont jump on me as I appreciate the arguments about stereotyping etc etc.

Terry was always very much involved in the cover artwork - certainly since Paul Kidby took them over. I can only assume that Terry was happy with the way Tiffany looks. She's never been described as particularly attractive - this was clear in I Shall Wear Midnight and previous books. I'm happy enough with the cover.

 

[Tonyblack]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please

I have copied and pasted this from The Discworld Monthly, for those who are not subscribed to it (why not?). In case you are wondering about what a Shepherd's Crown is. Please note that this is not the same as a sand dollar. There is a relation in that they are/were similar creatures, but the Shepherd's Crown as mentioned in the book, refers to a fossil that is often found in chalk. If you like it is a fossil of the creature that a sand dollar eventually became. I know there has been some confusion about this as the illustration on the American version of the book looks somewhat more like a sand dollar than a shepherd's crown.

Author's Comment - Jacqueline Simpson

So what is a 'shepherd's crown', then?

Several people have recently asked me if I will be writing
explanatory comments on the folklore Terry used in The Shepherd's
Crown, as I had done for his previous books. I did indeed write (at
the publishers' request) about the 'crowns', and also about the
custom of telling one's bees about deaths in the family. I assumed
this material would be used in e-book versions of the novel, as was
done on earlier occasions. However, Random House decided to put it
in the 100GBP de-luxe edition only, of which a mere 500 copies will
be printed worldwide. They have forbidden me to repeat the
information anywhere else in print, so as not to infringe the
exclusivity of these 500 purchasers.

So, dear fellow-fans, I suggest you do your own research by googling
'echinoid', 'sea-urchin', and 'shepherd's crown'. Both living and
fossilised echinoids are frequently pictured, for instance at the
Natural History Museum's website, which also has a section on the
folklore of fossils. There is further material in Kenneth Oakley's
article 'Folklore of Fossils: Part II' in Antiquity 39 (June 1965).

As for telling bees, you will find full information in Iona Opie and
Moira Tatem's A Dictionary of Superstitions or in Steve Roud's
Penguin Guide to the Superstitions of Britain and Ireland, and
briefer references in most books on 19th century English rural
customs. There is also an article on Wikipedia.

Enjoy, and spread the word!

 

[GertrudeLouise]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown **Spoilers Allowed**

Thank you for the welcome. I used to read and contribute to the Terry Pratchett Newsgroup quite some years ago. about the 1990s \i think.

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please

I just got my copy today after a screw-up by Waterstones not delivering it to the local shop for collection, so I've cancelled it and bought it elsewhere, being a bank holiday in England it won't arrive before Tuesday if then but they can have it back.

 

[The Mad Collector]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown **Spoilers Allowed**

As I've stated elsewhere - I have tried my hardest to avoid spoilers, and yet I still knew about Granny's death (I'm saying it here as spoilers are allowed). I found a point where Nanny and Tiffany are burying Granny - it was most poignant as I found I could quite easily substitute "Granny Weatherwax" for "Terry Pratchett" and it would make a whole lot of sense.

I had successfully avoided most spoilers before reading the book and didn't know about Esme's death in advance but like you Tony I found myself thinking about Terry so much as I read the passages concerning her death and simple yet poignant burial.

I thought the book as a whole was very good; although as Rob implies in the afterword, you could see where Terry didn't appear to have finished the ending in his usual polished style. Maybe if he had lived the book would have been say 30 pages longer to give less rushed battle and resolution scenes but I loved the book and in a couple of weeks will reread it. I find this gives enough time to think over what I have read so far and be ready to pick up on nuances that I missed first time, references that hint at what is to come which only make full sense when you read them again knowing how the story unfolds.

RIP Granny Weatherwax along with Granny Aching and of course the master himself Sir Terry Pratchett

 

[Sister Jennifer]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please

Is it wrong of me to think that Tiffany looks particularly---er--hot--in this illustration? I mean, she hopefully is well over 18 by the time the novel starts, right?

Oh dear me, sorry again. That's message boards for you, you can't always tell the intention of someone's comment. You see, as an example, to me the above comment comes across as a bit creepy and not really about the cover art per se. Obviously there's a time and a place etc which maybe isn't here, but I could be wrong.

If there was was any suggestion of an intent to skirmish on my part, once again, I do apologise.

Skins on backs intact, huzzah!

 

[Jack Remillard]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown **Spoilers Allowed**

I had been intending to wait for the audiobook, but thanks to a review in the Guardian (which was at pains not to spoil the ending), I knew about Granny Weatherwax's death, so I ended up buying the Kindle edition at about 3AM...

It is so silly in a way, but Granny Weatherwax has been real in my head for about 23 years, and she's been one of my big fictional heroes since Carpe Jugulum. I was so sad that she died. It's funny, when I re-read Carpe Jugulum a few months ago, I was wondering how old she would be 'now'. Pretty old I thought. I just didn't think I'd read about her dying...

I have to admit, I cried my eyes out while reading it, and I'm crying now at the thought of it. Her scenes with her bees and Death were lovely, and the reactions of Nanny Ogg and Ridcully (her oldest friends) were really moving. I kind of wish I hadn't 'seen' all that though. But it was still nice.

Otherwise, I thought it was a good story. I kind of wish I'd re-read Lords And Ladies before reading it (as that is a book I had been meaning to re-read as it didn't really appeal to my teenage self, but I thought it might well be one I would appreciate now). I am currently re-reading it.

 

[Tonyblack]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown **Spoilers Allowed**

I finished reading it last night and enjoyed it. However, I can certainly see that the book hadn't had the final polish. It left me wanting more, which I realise I will never get. I liked the ending and the realisation that Granny Weatherwax and Granny Aiken where still there. I had been half expecting that somehow Granny had left a part of her inside You, and I guess she did - but not in any way I was expecting. I liked how Tiffany made the decision that, even though she had been left Granny's cottage, she saw that her real place was on the Chalk where she belonged.

I was reminded when reading this, something that I read about Lord of the Rings. How Tolkien was comparing the orcs, goblins and the forces of Sauron, to the coming of industry and the end of the English country life as depicted in the Shire. I feel Terry has been working up to a similar thing in the last few books - but in a much more positive way. The mail and the clacks and then the railway have effectively opened up the Disc for its inhabitants. The coming of iron, especially when it comes to the railway, has made a world where the elves have no real power any longer. Their incursion was never going to work because the Disc has grown out of the superstitious Medieval place it once was and now science, technology and industry have changed all that forever. The Disc is still not a perfect world, but it is learning to be.

 

[simmonds91]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please

tch.. I think thats a bit disgusting of random house if you ask me, keeping the information in the 500 deluxe copies... thats just wrong. Nothing a google search wont clear up though

 

[raisindot]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown **Spoilers Allowed**

Since I don't have my copy yet, I am not reading this topic. I am not reading this topic. I am NOT reading this topic.

But I just want to tell you, Tony, that what you've done here is create the forum equivalent --for the "Shepherd-less" among us--of the huge, big red button attached to the Doomsday device that says "DO NOT PUSH THIS BUTTON UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES."

Thanks a lot! :x :x :x

 

[Tonyblack]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown **Spoilers Allowed**

Since I don't have my copy yet, I am not reading this topic. I am not reading this topic. I am NOT reading this topic.

But I just want to tell you, Tony, that what you've done here is create the forum equivalent --for the "Shepherd-less" among us--of the huge, big red button attached to the Doomsday device that says "DO NOT PUSH THIS BUTTON UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES."

Thanks a lot! :x :x :x

I know the feeling! I was in the same position when I posted this having not already read it.

 

[Penfold]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown **Spoilers Allowed**

This is only me repeating my understanding of what Jacqeline Simpson said; Apparently, the ending of the book is not the one Sir Terry wanted but was put there by the publishers instead. How true this is (and I'm quick to point out that I haven't read it yet) seems plausible if I am right in thinking that the final outcome was resolved differently from his previous books. I shall comment further in here once I get to the end. (I believe Tiff going back to The Chalk was one of the things Sir Terry did want, btw.)

 

[Penfold]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please

Just finished speaking with Jacqeline Simpson and she commented on this, Simmonds. To say she is rather angry about what they have done re her article is an understatement. She also had to agree not to print any of it either, hence her showing where you can find the information she used instead. She really is not a happy bunny at the moment when it come to this.

 

[Tonyblack]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown **Spoilers Allowed**

Definitely, Tiffany had to go back to the Chalk. It's the place she draws her power from. She is the Hag o' the Hills and Land Under Water.

 

[Who's Wee Dug]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please

It's shame when that happens but unless you're a king pin they can run roughshod all over you.

On the other I have just downloaded the the unabridged audio from Audible.

 

[raisindot]

Re: The Shepherd's Crown - No Spoilers in this thread please

Is it wrong of me to think that Tiffany looks particularly---er--hot--in this illustration? I mean, she hopefully is well over 18 by the time the novel starts, right?

Oh dear me, sorry again. That's message boards for you, you can't always tell the intention of someone's comment. You see, as an example, to me the above comment comes across as a bit creepy and not really about the cover art per se. Obviously there's a time and a place etc which maybe isn't here, but I could be wrong.

If there was was any suggestion of an intent to skirmish on my part, once again, I do apologise.

Skins on backs intact, huzzah!

Realizing that the last thing this dead horse needs is yet another flogging, Sister Jennifer, but my comment was about cover art and I don't see how anyone could have interpreted it differently. It was a commenting on a German artist's visual depiction of Tiffany that seems completely different than the way Pterry has described her looks (and how Tiffany perceived herself). The point being made here / question being raised is did the German artist actually read the book, or did he simply take Kidby's cover and inject a little more "sex" into the illustration, presumably to increase sales in the German market?